Changes 6 Nov

[TTG]

Aye, seterwind hit it on the dot.

The grove was overpowered.  Templates are everything.  If you'd like I can build you a specific template to your needs and can almost guarntee you a successful hunting experience.  Keep in mind though, there are monsters and spawns that even the strongest and best templates on the shard cannot defeat solo.

Some tactics too.  Either Pm me, or respond here and I am willing to share all my knowledge to help you.


-Ironhand

[Cpt_Starfox]

"I have Rowen who is a warrior druid, who is not effected what so ever by these changes, and can tank as good as my warrior and has a grove and some killer pets, and vet. "

I am druid... and don't use pets.... so I must be my own tank.  I might not be as good as a warrior tank but I can take that and enjoy my uniqueness and variety of skills to make up for it as long as I can still effectivly fight  

"If you don't like banadages (and from your seeming complaints about how warriors can use them) they are the only way warriors have to heal, unless they have necromancy or magery in that case, they still shell out and train up 100 healing to be able to use them... because it's the general concencous that it's the best way to heal. "

NO no no... you got me all wrong... Warriors bandages are great for them, and I have no complaints about them for those who want to use them!  And, it may indeed be the best way to heal beating grove hands down... Again, I have no complaints about people using bandages! It's just that bandages aren't for me. I personally just don't like them period. And, if bandages are really all that great and are better than grove then why don't they get "changed" to balance?  Please don't take that seriously. I don't want bandages changed at all, but I am just saying... if it is better than or as good as grove... and it is ok (and I think it is great)... why is grove considered unbalanced?  I think neither way was unbalanced till now... and now the balance is against grove    (not an intentional unbalance I'm sure... but still unbalanced for me.   )  Grove did need fixing... as the one per-screen thing to reduce lag... but if only one per-screen... then I hope the healiong rate is maintained throughout its "life span" and the delay between groves is removed.  This solution should return the balance of the land and still help fight lag as far as I can tell. (and btw hehe... I should know all too well about lag!  Dial-up   )

"I am curious on what your char is supposed to be, since you have the min req for druids but don't use pets often, I find that you are very much just a druid warrior for just the grove. Which is kind of going against the point of a druid... I'm sad to hear this change has altered greatly your standard way of fighitng, but adapting and perhaps incorperating new styles would be good."

You hit the nail on the head.... well almost....  I am a druid warrior... but not just for grove... it it were just for grove then why not just use bandages instead and give myself some more skill space maybe?  
I am druid warrior because I like casting the spells and being a tamer. I do have pets... I love having them... I just don't use them.  I love the druid spells: grove (duh), volcanic erruption (roast em!), swarm of insects (sting em!), pack of beast (sick em!), and summon ent friend (pound em! Love that lil extra musle hehe)... ooo ooo and I love druid vision! that is soo fun and VERY useful.... and cloning can't be beat for unsurpassed funniness and fun and at times good for battle too! (nothing like sicking the creature on itself... or two of me... and you all thought one of me was bad enough! hehe) I love em, love em, love em hehe.

"Potions can be used with razor if you check (Unequip and reequip for drinking potions). If you don't use razor you can make a macro in game (un equip, equip last use last item) to do it as well. "

Call me old fashion, but I don't use razor and don't plan to ever... plus not all people can use it right?  Yes, I do have equip and un-equip macros... but they are naturally delayed pretty well... so it might go something like this:

Me: oh no I need to drink my healing potion! *drops staff and takes  a drink*
Monster: *pounds the life out of me as I drink*
Me: 1.*dies drinking* or 2. ah that was refreshing... now where did I put that staff *looks for it* (my RP explaination for the delay time on the macro lol).... oh there it is! *dies*

"Or you can get Hit point regen armor. Armor of the Fallen king does wonders I believe... there are a lot of other options other then Healing, or using a pet to tank for you and such. "

One, how you gonna kill those things to get those drops if you can't effectivly fight.... how can you get augments if you can't effectly fight... Also, what if I don't want to socket regen... what if I have other plans... (which I do).  Also, I'm not sure regen works that great anyway unless you get a TON of it... I have some regen on my armor if I remember right... and it isn't all that and I don't want to spend all my sockets to get halfway decent HP regen.

Two, again, I don't use pets... one reason being: I like doing it myself. Other reason: only 100 taming... just enough to make me a happy tamer... not enough to use pets effectly in battle because my stable is too full... I used jewelry (not my main jewelry) to get 120 taming and then put more pets into my stable... I hardly feel like changing my jewelry in the mist of heated combat LOL.... oh wait a sec Mr. Dragon... I have to change my jewelry lol!  Also, I don't have vet... so ouchy to my poor pets    So, I like having pets just because I like them... they look cool and I love em    But they don't help me much in battle hehe.  They're "indoor" pets lol!

PS.
Thanks Iron... but I like me as me and I like to make my own.  I was fine and my template worked well... till now.  No offence, but I do just like my template the way it is   

PSS.
"Druids are..."
Druids are whatever we want to make them and however we want to make them and rp-play them.
There are some generic style/templates (or commonly used I mean)... doesn't mean everyone are those or wants to be those.
-edit-
"you're really limiting yourself"
Isn't everyone dependant on something? Everyone is limited in some way... Grove is a main factor for me.... dosn't mean my template is bad... or that I am weak skilled, have bad armor, or whatever... just means I am unique and that grove is my main way of healing when in heated battle... if the battle isn't that bad... I use greater heal, but when fighting a bunch of stuff... greater heal doesn't cut it and potions are even worse.

[Forest Rithik]

Hello, I am Rithik and I would just like to say that since his and all his allts templates defensive sides are based on the unrestricted, unbalanced and generally ignored warrior mechanics he remains yet again uneffected by yet another nerf

Rithik would be pleased if he hadn't gone to that grump oldbie home.

*Last nerf to effect Rithik or Rithik's allts = Bandage speed nerf from 2 years ago :-P

[rubycona]

Cpt, sometimes you have to choose between RP and effective. You do it your way because of RP purposes and that's fine. But you have to accept the concequences of it.

You have to have animal taming and magery to become a druid. That means 200 points of your 1200 total skill points are being taken up. It's your choice: use it or not. If not, you're weakening your build by that many points. A Druid Does have taming and magery, so any Druid template built well WILL use taming and magery.

The Ideal template is one that utilizes All 1200 skill points. And it can be very easy to make a build use them all. Such a build will inherently be more powerful than a build only utilizing, say, 1100, or 1000 skill points.

This is because skill points give you power.

The very fact that you have 100 taming and Aren't Using It In Battle means your template is inherently flawed for combat. Not that its worthless, it can be just fine, wonderful for RP purposes. But for combat, you'd be better off scratching that 100 pts in taming and instead getting 100 pts in healing.

It is a fact that the grove was overpowered. It's plainly obvious because of cases such as yourself. You rely on the grove as your only real mainstay.

In essense: if you're not willing to do what it takes to be a good fighter, then you won't be a good fighter. This is A. How the GMs decided it should be done and B. more balanced. A person who builds his/her build poorly for RP purposes should not be an extremely good fighter. It's the person who builds the tenplate for fighting who should be a good fighter.

[Loff'ta]

I'm sorry, but all I can do is laugh at your arguments for enchanted grove.

EVERYONE is unique and has their very own playing style.

No two characters are alike nor battle the same as others.

If you choose not to adapt to changes, in order to maintain some sort of uniqueness, more power to you!

But there are many options out there that basically make enchanted grove unnecessary for a druid, regardless of what other skills they may or may not have on their template.

If you can no longer hunt, solely as a result of changes that were made to one spell, then you're probably hunting things that were not meant for solo hunting.

Enchanted grove was changed in a way that made it a more balanced spell.

It was never meant to be used as the primary source of healing for a druid.

The changes to it should have little effect on players who use the skills they need to hunt and choose to play as druids.

Not using pets to hunt as a druid is your choice. Having warrior skills and not using healing to heal is your choice.
Not using razor to better use potions is your choice. Building a character that seemingly relies on one spell to hunt is your choice. Not utilizing other options available to you, that would allow you to hunt more effectively, is your choice.

Not being able to hunt because of the changes to enchanted grove is because of the choices you made, not because of the changes made to the spell.

The changes benefit the entire shard by providing more balance and creating less lag, as well as other things.

I have changed all of my characters numerous times to accommodate changes made to the game.

They are all unique and I am better able to play as a result.

But then none of them rely on enchanted grove for healing in the heat of a battle...

[Forest Rithik]

Keep in mind though, there are monsters and spawns that even the strongest and best templates on the shard cannot defeat solo.

False!, believe me on that one. I aint joking either.

[Cpt_Starfox]

"Cpt, sometimes you have to choose between RP and effective. You do it your way because of RP purposes and that's fine. But you have to accept the concequences of it."

The skill I seemingly have for RP is Taming... I have it so that I can be a druid and so I can fight and use the druid spells... but since I have taming, I decided to use it for RP mostly... that doesn't make me suffer... that is required to be a druid which helps give me power.... Magery BTW I use for healing people's pets and for teleporting and doing other things... magery is also very useful in battle and I use it constanly!  But Greater healing is not usful in battle!

"The Ideal template is one that utilizes All 1200 skill points. And it can be very easy to make a build use them all. Such a build will inherently be more powerful than a build only utilizing, say, 1100, or 1000 skill points."

I have used all 1200 skill points and mostly every single one of em is used for battle.  I just don't have bandage healing and should not be forced to!  My template is just fine...

"The very fact that you have 100 taming and Aren't Using It In Battle means your template is inherently flawed for combat. "

You obviously don't know my template and I don't care to share it with everyone... and I feel down right insulted.... please quit insulting me.

"It is a fact that the grove was overpowered. It's plainly obvious because of cases such as yourself. You rely on the grove as your only real mainstay."

Grove is NOT overpowered.... Just because I rely on it for healing doesn't mean I am a case for it being overpowered.... does this mean bandages are overpowered because people rely so heavily  on them to heal and can take on tons of monsters at a time without a single tree in sight???  Does this mean that people who rely heavily on bandages for healing are flawed???

" if you're not willing to do what it takes to be a good fighter, then you won't be a good fighter."
I am not a noob... I made a good fighting char... this change is cripling me because it affects my healing.

"A. How the GMs decided it should be done " - yes... I know that...
"B. more balanced" - nope...

"A person who builds his/her build poorly for RP purposes should not be an extremely good fighter. It's the person who builds the template for fighting who should be a good fighter."

As I said, I built for fighting and not for RP!!! And who says you can't have a little of both!?  And, again I feel insulted.... "poorly for RP purposes"... yes I am insulted... If you want to discuss this subject, please do so without furtrher insulting me. 

"I'm sorry, but all I can do is laugh at your arguments for enchanted grove."
I don't appreciate being laughed at just because you disagree... I have put out valid arguments to give my point and have thought this stuff out very much before posting... I read carefully your post and replies before I respond... I even do quotes and repond to points people make.  If you can't do that and you don't agree with me, please don't retailiate by insulting me.... just quote my post points and reply to them logically!

why are you people insulting me??

"But there are many options out there that basically make enchanted grove unnecessary for a druid, regardless of what other skills they may or may not have on their template."

It is necessary for me or I wouldn't be trying to get it fixed....

"Not using pets to hunt as a druid is your choice. "
That it is, and who says I MUST be a typical druid beast master to be a good fighter?

"Having warrior skills and not using healing to heal is your choice."
Aye, and it worked fine because there was an effective alternate in Grove...

"Not using razor to better use potions is your choice. "
My computer is slow enough and laggy enough as it is without Razor helping it"

"Building a character that seemingly relies on one spell to hunt is your choice."
How about building a template that replies on bandages?  Not much  different!

"Not utilizing other options available to you, that would allow you to hunt more effectively, is your choice."
What options other than healing don't I have that would help me fight better?  Do you even know how well I fought before?  I doubt you do... so to let you know, I was fine before and could take on a seeker solo for example with no pets.  Which is not a bad thing since people who don't use grove can do that too if they are good warriors!

"Not being able to hunt because of the changes to enchanted grove is because of the choices you made, not because of the changes made to the spell."

False... or at the most only indirectly true.... take a closer look at what you just said... let me rearrange it for ya:

"Not being able to hunt because of the changes to enchanted grove ((is))  not because of the changes made to ((enchanted grove))."

Now do what?  I'm not trying to be rude but.... Sounds contradictory to me.... but I do think I get what you are saying... kinda... and my response...

I made those choices and was fine... now it is unbalanced and is not fine.  It breaks my healing! Healing is essential for fighting!!! So naturally, you break my healing then you break my fighting!  I rely on grove healing.... others rely on bandage healing... what is the difference???  Why must everyone be forced to reply on bandages?? Wouldn't that make Grove kinda pointless... I mean if everyone has healing why use grove at all??  Grove is not overpowered, it is mostly an alternate for bandages for those of us who don't want healing in our template... and again... not having healing doesn't = bad tempate.

For people relying to me in the future, please, if you want to reply to me... do so politly and try to read my whole post (yes it is kinda long but still) to get the whole picture....
-edit- I care very much for this shard and its people and do not appreciate being treated rudly and hope people consideratly read my whole post... I'm am making an honest plea for a change that I think will return balance to the shard.  We are each entitled to our views -end edit-

-edit-
Ok... seems this has drifted away into a discussion about whether Grove is overpowerd or not and whether I am a good player or not.... So in getting back more closly to the subject.... I restate my plea:

I just want grove to heal at the same rate throughout its "life span" and have the delay between grove casting taken out...

This is a fairly simple request and should not matter much over the current changes to those who don't like grove.... But it will restore balance for me (and I believe others as well while still adding some extra chalenge and reducing lag).  Please do this so I can enjoy more fully my playing on this shard again...
-end edit-

[Knossos]

Returning balance to the shard would be the 'nerf' to the trees that you see now.

As they were, the trees were imbalanced.  Granting a caster seemingly infinite mana and nearly full heals and full stam is amazing.  You were relying on one spell to preform, which is fine, but that spell was unfortunately to powerful.  Trees, in the native script I believe, only regenerated mana, and not the mana of the caster.  It was a group spell to give power to others at your own expense.  Trees on this shard were buffed by including stam, hit points, and mana of the caster, AND significantly increased the regeneration rates.  If you would rather the original script I'm sure they would consider it, but I would take my blessings and say thank you to the original editor.

Your argument for nerfing bandages isn't as valid as you are pushing, unless bandages heal you for 100 hit points every .5 seconds, and regenerate all of your mana and stamina.  Right now the fastest bandage is 1.85 seconds and they heal for about 50-60 hit points, and can be interrupted and delayed if you are being hit.  An alternative to bring trees to the level of bandages and other forms of healing could be that it delays the healing based on the number of hits you are receiving, just like bandages or spell casting does.  In my mind even that would be almost to powerful because of the massive power that the trees have anyway.  Also, they can not be dispelled by anyone or stopped unlike any other form of healing, meaning if they are up you will be healed.  They could also make it so they could be dispelled by mobs with hit dispell, that too would be an alternative to lower the effectiveness but not lose it's worth.

There are TONS of ways that this could change, and every single one of them is 'worse' then this, and each brings trees to a level of similarity to its counter parts.  Trees now have a casting delay essentially, just like every other healing skill.  If you rely on them for healing, use a different healing spell during those few seconds then recast them.  We aren't asking you to change you playing style, just make one accommodation to bring less lag and more balance.  Can you honestly say that being attacked by 10 things with no healing and never dying unless you were one shot was balanced?

-Knossos

[Alder Ogham]

"A. How the GMs decided it should be done " - yes... I know that...
"B. more balanced" - nope...

A. if you know that, quit moaning.  This is not some whim - it's a considered re-balancing of the system.
B. sorry, yes. End of thread.

I'm sorry but there are obviously two camps here - one camp is happy that we've reduced lag and tipped the scales back so that the challenge still is there but not in an overpowered way, the camp other is annoyed 'cos they rely on it and don't want to adjust to change.  The majority seems to be in the former camp and this discussion is not constructive...