Sylvan Heart Forum

 Curiously want to know how people feel over this one, we had a very interesting talk amongst a few of the gang last night and the majority were agreeing that the shard would be better without sockets.
  Nuttin personal...*grins* ;D

I am going to have to say yes. 

I have said before I do not think one person should be able to walk through the guantlet and solo everything including the Dark Father. The concept behind Sockets is interesting, but they have become too over powered. Now mind you this is just my two cents, but I thought I would share my opinion.

It is nice to have someone else to hunt with, talk to and have a good time with.

Yes, I believe nerfing sockets will improve the quality of Sylvan, and quite a few of the full-socketed people agree too Mina.

Although I think it isn't neccessary to completely get rid of them, I think doing things like nerfing augs/making them harder to get and getting rid of ASHs will make sockets much harder to obtain. It is getting to the point where someone can get some dex and evasion and pretty much solo anything that isnt in Fel within a few days.

I believe that rather than making players be able to solo-tank the bosses for 30 mins and being able to kill them, it would be more interesting to make them take around 10-15 mins to kill the boss with a group of people, and seeing many of the party members die ^^

No, I don't believe getting rid of sockets will help game play because Ultima Online was meant to be used by hundreds of players on a single shard while we only have maybe 14 online at any time that is an imbalance of resources vs players who compete for those resources giving every player the ability to become extremely powerful in a very short period of time.

So if you were going to get rid of sockets why not instead get rid of some resources such as:Make it tougher to gain skills and lower the cap as well as lower the cap for stats, make existing common monsters such as orcs more difficult to defeat, and include PKing in more areas besides Fellucia, when someone asks for help in public chat it should be ignored (Knights in 13th century England did not have the ability to use a public chat system to call for help).

But also keep in mind to get rid of sockets means getting rid of Fellucia, Alarics Dungeon...etc..etc..because without high stats, skills, and sockets those places are impossible.

In conclusion I don't believe its the sockets that are the problem, to get a really good idea of the issue why not ask how long it takes  for a new player to collect socketed armor and reach the skill caps, and compare that to another free shard.

PS How are we going to do more group hunting when there is only a small number of people on the shard?

I dont think getting rid of sockets is the answer eather, i know i prefer to hunt alone most of the time and thats just by choice it does take time and effort to get all the things needed for the sockets so why get rid of them.

I agree that sockets should be kept. That is my opinion as a player and a GM. I would like to see sockets redone however to require one more socket for each level of augment 2 for ancient, 3 for legendary, and four for mythic. I think that will slow down some of the stronger fighter types. The problem I have with losing sockets is that players with very strong pets will still be able to hunt a lot of things solo. I also feel druids will become a must have for everyone. With sockets as they are now, people at least try a few different approaches to making uber characters. I am not saying no one will play a fighter or an archer or a bard or a mage, there are always people who are determined to see if they can make something work or who just really enjoy the challenge of playing weaker characters. We already have a non-socketed venue on this shard and that is the roleplay. I would like to see some non-socketed PvP, but even though that has been suggested a few times, the PvP'ers have resisted that like they are being offered the plague. Yet they sit there and beat on each other til they get bored or have to get 2 or 3 to 1 odds to actually kill someone. On OSI everyone played a Mage or a WW/nightmare tamer. When the Tokuno arties came out, the mages camped with energy vortexes and the tamers complained. This resulted in the mages getting nerfed and then EVERYONE going over to taming. I'd hate to see that happen here.

Just my 2 gold pieces

No, I prefer my sockets.  I mostly hunt alone.  There's not enough people here to muster up group hunts all the time.  And as far as making augs harder to get, they've already done that.  I rarely find anything now that is worth putting in a socket.

My personal view and I do not know if this is better for the shard or not.  I would not remove sockets totally but I would work out some system to par them down.  Fewer sockets per item, fewer items able to be socketed perhaps.

Then again I also think the skill cap should be lowered hehe.

lenin, we would not have to get rid of Fel, just because sockets get nerfed.

You can already see the problem sockets are causing - people have become much, much too dependant on them and are scared of losing them. Probably most of the Fel bosses will need to be nerfed, as well as some things in Alarics, however, it is not impossible to do with a group without sockets.
Also, 14 people online at a time is more than enough to go group hunting with. Its not like you go out hunting with 100 people, usually just 2 or 3 others and you're good to go.

Atm, I believe Sylvan is turning into a single player uo game. All the hunters out there are soloing, just because it is a lot easier + better profit that way. So they farm gold, buy more sockets and farm more gold. Eventually there's going to be a point where there is almost nothing to do with 10 million gold pieces.

And Myrick, it does not have to go that way. If the sockets are properly balanced along with all the other classes, that will not happen. Not everyone will need to become a druid, just because sockets get nerfed, as long as Druids and mobs themselves also get nerfed (hence balancing gameplay).

Also, Shakka, the augs are still fairly easy to get. In the short time I have been here, I have already found a mythic ruby, a mythic emerald and many legendaries. How is it that they are hard to find?

Anyway, thats just my opinion. I believe that sockets dont need to be erased, but nerfed heavily (probably if this is to happen, pets will need nerfing too).

Quote from: Abbadon on January 29, 2009, 08:25:36 AM


Also, Shakka, the augs are still fairly easy to get. In the short time I have been here, I have already found a mythic ruby, a mythic emerald and many legendaries. How is it that they are hard to find?

Anyway, thats just my opinion. I believe that sockets dont need to be erased, but nerfed heavily (probably if this is to happen, pets will need nerfing too).

Alright you found those mythics then thats luck it is hard to find mythics because its all based on your luck.
Also why nerf something someones already payed for in game (sockets the val used to do the socketing and the buying of the augs if already boughten) that also includes the pets people have already tamed them trained them and use them theyv already been acquired why nerf them if theyv already been worked/payed for, i think the game is fine how it is some people dont like hunting in groups i know i usually dont i prefer to go out ther alone most of the time.

When I was hunting for a shard thre were two things I was looking to avoid...OSI Clones and Free Arties!!  Everything is Given to You!!  I found Sylvan Heart and was very happy with its "Happy Medium."   Like others have said, there are not enough folks playing regularly to hunt as a group on a regular basis.  With that being said, I don't see why there cannot be some some mobs or quest put in that are too tough for even the greatest of socketed toons and must be taken on by a group.  Adding to the challenge would be much better than taking away from the ability, IMHO.

Last but not least, we need a scriptor the most.  Or at least someone who knows how to install new scripts and work out the bugs.  There are literally tons of neato things that can be added.  A friend and I put up a test shard some time ago with the intention of him teaching me to script.  While I learned a lot, my knowledge is limited to being able to adjust existing scripts and such. 

I like what we have and think our top priority should be to find a scriptor.  Thanks for your time.

Quote from: Abbadon on January 29, 2009, 08:25:36 AM
Also, Shakka, the augs are still fairly easy to get. In the short time I have been here, I have already found a mythic ruby, a mythic emerald and many legendaries. How is it that they are hard to find?

Not for me.  I guess you have much better luck than I do.  I do not find augs like that in such short time.

I like my sockets.  I spent alot of money and time to get them.  I enjoyed the time spent acquiring them.  I enjoy even more using them. 

As for depending on the 14 or so people who are online to go on group hunts.....everyone's always doing their own thing and will not go on a group hunt at the drop of a hat.  We all know this.  And I'm not gonna sit around waiting and begging for people to go on a hunt with me because I cannot by myself.  I'll just move on to another place....

regarding the auggies...  guys  stop bitchin at each other, lol.  thats not what poll is about,  just sensing general opinion of what ye all think of the sockets...

  but if ye ever need to go group hunting, mina and the fel warriors are out almost all the time in small groups and everyone knows that a simple shout is all it takes to tag along.

Ohhh the sockets!  Right, right.  *smacks forehead* lol

Yes, keep them.  They are good.

Keep them plain and simple

Quote from: Quezecoatl on January 29, 2009, 02:21:19 PM


Alright you found those mythics then thats luck it is hard to find mythics because its all based on your luck.

That is not accurate because I find mythics all the time and i have like 150 luck Which is super low.

And lose em. and force people to hunt together. Maybe it will help bring people back to this shard. Right now a new person comes on and they may get some help at start but soon after they are forgotten and they also become solo hunters. Its a bad perpetual loop of demise. but then no one usually cares for my opnion anyway so just ignore it and go about doing your solo hunting on what is deemed a "family" shard. Or maybe everyone turns their common sense meter up some and looks at the bigger picture.

and yes I have not been playing much lately because it is not what it used to be.  to many solo people who are overpowered and do not want to hunt with anyone else for whatever reason.  greed, loner  who knows. or 2 many overpowered rich people charging an arm and a leg for noobies to get things socketed or buy decent armor. and no Im not playing on any other shards or even my own use shard.


Sorry shaft me   but at least I am honest and out for the shard and not for myself.

Quote from: Skynar on January 30, 2009, 12:40:05 AM

Quote from: Quezecoatl on January 29, 2009, 02:21:19 PM


Alright you found those mythics then thats luck it is hard to find mythics because its all based on your luck.

That is not accurate because I find mythics all the time and i have like 150 luck Which is super low.

Didn't mean that kind of luck ment real life luck could care less what in game luck is cause my real life luck when it comes to the game is fairly poor when it comes to finding augs.

As one of the old timers around here, I have to agree to keep the sockets. There are not enough players on the shard to facilitate group hunting. I, for one, almost always hunt alone because of my wierd schedule. Sometimes I have to go at the drop of a hat, and be back 5 mins later, so I don't want anyone relying on me. Also, what would wind up happening is that everyone would complain that "It's too hard!!", and the GMs would eventually have to tone down half the shard, which is A LOT of work. Most boss's in Fel can hit for more than our max HP witout sockets, case in point. Many smaller mobs in Fel can easily take us down in 1 or 2 hits without sockets. While I agree with Thane that they can be nerfed a bit, dropping them entirely would cause more work than it is worth. Possibly dropping to 3 or 4 sockets per item max, instead of 6 would help in the short run, or reducing socketable items to include only 4 or 5 things (like only jewelry, or only armor. But I say in the short run because there will always be players that will crunch the numbers, and power up.

BTW,

IIII'MMMM BBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACK!!!!!!!!

 :D   LOL,  i am loving this poll.  all of us at sylvan are soooooo  opinionated,  LOL

  Thanks for all the replies guys,  was fun reading  lol
  And Welcome back Silverglade

This seems to be a hot topic going on. I chose I really dunno because I could care less if we have sockets or not. If we were to get rid of them then that would let us be able to use all that awesome armor and weapons we can not use here cause they are to powerful with sockets. There is alot of armors and such we have but cant use cause of how strong and good they are so getting rid of sockets would let us use them :). Also, I like having sockets for I love what they bring to the table for my chars. On another note, then we would need to weaken dragons and possibly alot of monsters and what not and it can be done. Alot people will whine if there dragons get nerf weaken or whatever it be, but when we switch if it happens it doesnt matter anyway cause we will all start over if that times come anyhow :). There are many ways to look at this on both sides with negatives and  positives for both! But i would love to see all that awesome armor and weapons we dont get to use sometime soon :). Also on the augment side of things, anyone can aquire any augments they want or needs if they try hard enough. It may take time or come quick, but it is not impossible or to hard to get them. Luck does not play a factor in getting augments if u really want one save your gold and buy one if u have to . :)

This is just Rocks half dollar of sense.

Ok my vote is to leave things the way they are and just keep adding More cool stuff... We don't need any "re-balance."

This sounds to me kinda like the same old balance discussion just warmed over and tuned to be specifically about sockets...

So... now my spill on balance... warmed over and redone lol

Just because a tough player can solo just about anything they want given about 45 mins to do it... doesn't mean there is a lack of balance!

Ok, so what would be the signs to show any lack of balance? And, do we show any of the signs?

1. Is the shard too easy? Too newbie friendly? OR does it not have any challenges for the socketed end-gamers
Answer = NO
If you want to die and you think you are all that can't find a challenge anymore.... Well, I can certainly point you to some places that might change your mind. Sure you might have beaten them before given the 2yrs+ you've probly been here... but still, can you solo it?  How well can you solo it? What's the smallest group you can do it with? Do you have the skills it would take to run a very successful group hunt and to train new players? (it aint easy!)  -  There are challenges like that for the high-end gamer. Note: Just because you think that some boss should not be soloable and then someone does it, doesn't mean we lack balance... just means ya make a harder boss!  Muwahaha!!
If you absolutely prefer to hunt solo and don't care to try to help new players and go on group hunts with them... then you STILL have challenges that await you! Like what you ask? Let me list the challenges for various "high-end" gamers...
1. Can you solo every boss?  I mean can you solo Abraxius in Fel and his pet? Can you solo the walker in the darkness in the Cove Graveyard? Can you make the Prince of Skara Brae cower before you? Can you solo kick the blood god off his throne?? Can you make Caelan's evil twin page Caelan for help (hehe)? Can you you actually kill Acacia's twin or a paragon Drow king?
2. Do you have what it takes to gather a group of new players and train them and take them on successful group hunts? Remember, just because you can solo Doom doesn't mean you can lead a party into doom and be hailed as a wonderful leader! If your party wipes out.... guess who looks bad hehe - Them partly for being new... but you are the senior player afterall, you should know how to watch over your party and how to train them  ;) It takes time and effort to train a party to fight well together. Can you do it?
3. Let's say you're a soloist only... then can you solo everything?  And on the wild chance that you actually can (I'd be surprised) then have you gotton every special drop? I know players who are filthy rich and been here ages who still don't have everything! Go be a solo shiney collector! hehe
4. How awesome are you in various other skills?  Afterall, you can have 5 chars and just because you may be the "end all be all" of the warrior class, doesn't mean you can hit the broad side of a barn with a bow and arrow  ;)

2. Well is the shard too hard due to making everything for the end-gamers?
Answer = NO
There are dungeons of almost every level!  Sylvan has a near perfect stair-step balanced mob system to lead you from easy to nightmarishly hard. I've walked my way up through it and I know that it works. There is even a newbie dungeon!

3. Can only one type of player succeed in fights? OR can only one type of player make money?
Answer = NO
In most cases you can use any type of character to do anything you want... You just have to have the skills and know-how to pull it off ;) As far as Money, on Sylvan... for goodness sake... you can make money just being creative and selling Christmas ornaments, so... I don't see how there is an issue there. I've even heard and seen about making money being a gardener! There are more ways to make money in Sylvan than I care to count... if one way doesn't make enough money for you, just combine it with another way. Granted Sylvan can hardly accommodate every single "business" type and make sure it ends being filthy rich.... like if you try to sell plain boots to make money... don't expect to be filthy rich in one day lol - but the Sylvan economy is fairly accommodating to variety and creative thinking - as a matter of fact, it was just recently "tweaked" to be even more accommodating!!  How much more accommodating can we get?

4. Are there no accommodations for people of various hardheaded "views" about balance?
Answer = There are plenty of accommodations!
Before you get your feeling hurt (hehe), let me be the first to say I am one of the hardheaded people who love my sockets and do not want them "messed with"... Thus far, I'm ok.... but for the people who have other views... the people who think they'd have more fun without sockets... even those who despise sockets... what about them??? Well, there is the RP... NO SOCKETS and not even any Druid spells or pets above a WW - there are still stronger and weaker players even with those restrictions... but point is... there is the RP and it is FUN - It is awesomeness to almost the extent that human level can acquire... it is just cool.... join it and see! Ok... but still what if you don't like RP and you don't like sockets... well, nobody said that you *must* have sockets... you can not be socketed and still hunt in various places and even places in Fel believe it or not! You just gotta be good at what you do and have the know how to do it... granted you can't do *everything* but there is still a lot that you can do! AND as stated above, you can still make EXCELLENT money and be purely unsocketed. Oh and BTW, we also have all kinds of no-sockets events and even no-sockets pvp events!  In those such pvp events.... you unsocketed purest should have the upper hand of unsocketed experience! (hehe) SO, bottom line... Sylvan is accommodating in that regard as well!

5. Is everyone too powerful and nobody group hunts because of it?
As far as I can tell.... that is a pure myth. I'm someone who could be considered "powerful" as I can solo just about anywhere in Fel (excluding a few places that still scare me - the walker in the dark!!!  EEK!). But does that deter me from group hunting? absolutely not!  It helps me! It encourages me! It almost forced me! roflol - I might be little strong, but I love group hunts, I group hunt not because I have to in order to defeat the mobs.... that is not the point of group hunting anyway! The point of group hunting and the reason I do it, is to meet new people and to help new players become good fighters and strong team players! It isn't an easy task all the time, and I dunno that I am much of a leader heh, but I try to organise group hunts to meet people and get people together. I'm a stronger player and as such it is almost set forth as my responsibility to help the new comers. Being strong helps me in leading. It does not make me a good leader, or even make me a leader at all, but it helps and encourages me as I try to get groups together and form hunts. Generally the reasons I find that people do not group hunt with me is because they are crafters and are busy, they are new and are macro training, or they are already in a group hunt, or they are out artifact hunting as a soloist. There is nothing wrong with any of that, but those are more the reasons I find that people don't join hunts... there may be 15 people online, but not all of them are hunters.... not all of them are "in the mood" and not all of them aren't busy with other things... being socketed doesn't seem to have much negative affect at least that I personally have seen... it actually has a positive affect for me.

-edit-
Oops, almost forgot, about aquiring high level stuff to augment you armor... Legendaries I can find once ina while... Mythics... as long as I've been here, Mythics are not easy to find and cost a fortune to buy.... I dunno, some people just seem to naturally find them somehow... but it seems to me that for most of us, it aint easy!!

Oh and btw... sockets and armor are SUPOSE to cost a lot lol - because it is good stuff! If you disagree on the price and want to change things, then by all means, get to where you can socket things and then you can charge whatever you want! hehe Like I said, the Sylvan economy is accommodating indeed hehe   ;)
-end edit-

Bottom line, I don't think we need any balance tweaks... we're already balanced and doing very well.

Who would have ever thought that Sylvan was such a wonderful place hehe  ;D ;)

I vote no leave things the way they are . i dont understand this balance thing that every one keeps talking about .ive been here a year and there were tons of places to go as a newbie and i found a ton of things to do. and now im alot stronger and i still have a lot of places i can go and alot of things to do. i have socketed chars and i have non socketed chars. and i can get on any one of them and find all kinds of things to fight or to do. how much more balanced can you get ,  its your choice as to how strong your char is. if you want them stronger then make them stronger, or enjoy the game with what you do have its your choice, why change other peoples game . theres things to do on this game for all levels of players so why change it .

Cap I disagree with 90% of what you said

Small mobs for unsocketed players give our garbage for gold.  Even OSI Uo MOBs  give out better gold.  So dont say its balanced because its not   The low mobs give nothing  The high mobs  over give.

Some Hardheaded super strong people who can kill anything. in 5 min or 45 min  are delusional if they think it is easy to make GP killing Shame mobs all day for what 2 bog mobs would cash out. Not to mention  with the Bad vendor economy.  To many vendors not enough buyers when you can make it all yourself.  So that is no way to make any real money.  hence its next to impossible to buy good armor or weapons because when it does happen to be something good on the auction all of the overpowered mob killing hardheaded keep the sockets people have literally  Millions in Gp 10's of millions   So  try spending a year on this shard killing like crazy, hunting like crazy, vending like crazy.  To still not be able to even come close to competing with  for good items  with the mega strong.     

It amazes me that it is no different here then in real life.  The rich and powerful always say how great it is while the middle and low class always beg for mercy when it solely benefits the rich and powerful.

THINK ABOUT IT before you go off about it.

Khayman

Ok... what Cpt has said is very true. When I first joined the shard I had no sockets, let alone any good armor or weapons and I made very good amounts of gold training in SHAME, covetous level 1 and lesser types of dungeons. So Sky you are false in what you are saying. I made good amounts of gold from hunting these places when i was young. The small mobs do give decent loot so I don't understand why you say they don't. And not all the players who have alot of gold win everything at auctions I saw and seen many things go to people with less gold and I also recall you winning a staff item... unless ur implying your one of us overpowered hardheaded mob killing keep the socket players. If someone does WIN stuff at auction its cause they EARNED the gold they use to win that item. I really think you need to think about what you wrote and think about it before  you go off about it. I also don't see anyone begging for mercy and this game specifically this shard benefits EVERYONE not just rich

I also think killing small mobs can net you the best amounts of money. When I want cash I'll do darksider runs with destard/alarics/chaos. I wouldnt say Alarics and chaos is low, but as far as Im concerned you can easily do darksiders with no sockets. It also happens to be that darksiders give one of the best gold to time ratio compared to pretty much anywhere in Fel. You can sit there killing a boss for 15 minutes, but killing 6 darksiders within 15 minutes will net you much more gold.

I reckon the reason wealthy people are wealthy is because they have the know-how and the experience to go where they need to depending on what they need. For example, a new player might over look ettin warlords, however they actually give one of the best atone to killing-time ratios you can get.

On a side note link - this had thread had nothing to do with balance nor wealth. It was to do with nerfing sockets to force people to hunt in groups. The fact was that some things needed to be balanced IF this had taken place (the thread has veered off in a COMPLETELY different direction - these kind of discussions tend to do). I believe everything is well balanced right now, however if we were to nerf sockets it would no longer be (hence the need to balance mobs).

Oh I don't usually comment on anything but I think I'm well suited to comment on this.  I've been here 3 years and played most of that time without sockets.  None of my characters are fully socketed yet.  I'm rich.  I can buy anything I want but prefer to find and make things on my own.  I found my mythics.  I have quite a few, actually, and have sold a few.  I will socket anyone that needs socketing if they have valorite since that takes time to gather.  I like sockets.  You don't need to be fully socketed to get rich fast here.  And if you ask, you will find someone to give you or help you get anything.  I like Sylvan because there are many layers and facets to the game.  You can get really strong and rich very fast or you can take your time, do it all yourself, dilly dally, and still have things to look forward to for a long long time.  I like sockets.  It's just another layer to the game, something more to achieve.  I like augments.  Just another thing to search for.  I liked gaining the skill and the resources to be able to socket armor, it's another challenge to be met.  I like things the way they are.  I'd be especially disappointed if sockets disappeared.  I like Sylvan because there's more to the game than just bashing away at monsters all the time.  Ok, I'll go decorate my house now.

"THINK ABOUT IT before you go off about it."

*cough cough*

Skynar/Khayman... you probly have more money hidden in an old sock in some forgotton corner of your house than I do in my whole bank account on Sylvan lol (I believe I can be considered rather poor indeed heh)  ;) 

"Strong" does not equal rich nor does "weak" equal poor as others have already stated and shown  :)

Also, if you do find someone struggling desperately to make it, help em out.  Share with them the benefit of your knowledge and experience (as well as a few coins if you can spare hehe).  Who knows, you might make another friend!  :)

roc its because no one else wanted it either including me and i gave half of it away as a gift. 

cap think again only reason i have anything is thru gifts and occasional empty auctions where i can actually get something without all of OOC driving the price insane.

I give plenty friend, you of all should know that.

apparently my knowledge is incorrect according to all the power players  so what benefits would the be according to your own logic?

only person i know of i havent been friends with is roc  because i think he is power hungry and over charges for things and drives the prices up and tries to bully people around and then harass then  through is all legal status of "shard council".   But hey thats just my opinion and im sure his feelings are not hurt by the loss.

but again  I see nothing changes unless the power players say so. and the only reason your blind to that is because you are the power players.

Acacia and other gms have treated me fantastic and i have no complaints about them.  I do think the shard needs an overhaul tho. and i think you are all against it because you know it would put you all back on equal ground with the little people and you would lose your holier then  thou im indestructable rich pwn everything advantage.

but hey im wrong about everything else  so why should this be any different.

I think this is getting a little too ridiculous and a little too personal, Skynar.

Quote from: Skynar on February 03, 2009, 04:41:25 AM
cap think again only reason i have anything is thru gifts and occasional empty auctions where i can actually get something without all of OOC driving the price insane.

Okay... I think you have gotten way off of topic here.. Why are you targeting a guild and accusing them of driviing prices insane??? NO one in that guild has done such a thing since I joined or intends to. IF someone has gold and wants to bid on something to win they have every right to try to win that item. Dont sit around blaming others for stuff cause they worked hard to get what they earned, anyone can make alot gold if they truely want to and how they spend it specially at a auction they prob saved it for shouldnt be attacked for.

Quote from: Skynar on February 03, 2009, 04:41:25 AM


only person i know of i havent been friends with is roc  because i think he is power hungry and over charges for things and drives the prices up and tries to bully people around and then harass then  through is all legal status of "shard council".   But hey thats just my opinion and im sure his feelings are not hurt by the loss.

You know what, I cant blame you for not being friends wit me thats on you. I have been at this shard for 2yrs now, and I do not deserve this crap from someone like you. I dont sit around talking bad on people on forums and if you took chance to get to know me you'd know the real side of me. If you asked ANYONE on this shard what type of person I am I am positive they tell u what you said above was false and you need to check yourself. I have always helped anyone who needed the help, I have given plenty of gold, rares, rare tamables, anything you can think of to many friends and players i first encountered. I dont know how I am power hungry maybe cause I like to try to make my character stronger? Who knows, and to say I bully people around??? Are you for real... I charge prices on items what I think it should be, you dont have to buy items if u dont wanna pay it... And I NEVER in my life harassed anyone in rl or game, but I do remember you sending my PMS over forums that seemed like harassment and very rude comments to me, but I didnt tell stuff cause Im not like that. I do not come onto this game or forums to here bullcrap like this, this kind of stuff drives my away and I really dont feel like dealing wit this crap of stuf you write that is personal.

Skynar... *choke* *gulp*

"I give plenty friend, you of all should know that."

Yes... I'm saying... please continue... and while I might disagree with you on some things, you do have useful "how to play" knowledge that you can share... and you obviously, (as you've stated) already share any wealth that you have... Khayman, you and I are poor together I guess! lol

"you all back on equal ground with the little people"

There is not supose to be equal ground in anything on this shard. Even in the events, various template types do better than other template types such as stealthers in a PB event or crafters in a craft and conquer. It is how it is meant to be. Encourages and promots variety and creative thinking. If there were no "ladder to climb up" or "top level" to attain unto... what would we be doing? Twiddling our thumbs?

Might I please also beg you to edit your post... no need to get into personal attacks and/or get near "flame strike" status.  Please man...

This is true, roc does give stuff away. Hes given me runic gear and already offered to socket for the charge of val only (which is pretty much like giving away a VS).

This thread is getting way out of hand. Skynar I find that in almost all the posts you have said nothing but negative things (regardless of whether or not your complaints are valid is irrelevant. This is a family shard and everyone should respect each other. You don't have to like Roc but you should show some respect). Apparently you do not even play anymore, so why should it matter to you whether or not the wealthier people monopolize? (if that is even true). Also, you refer to "little people." Most of the "wealthy" and "overpowered" people don't refer to them as "little." Wealth does not show superiority over others and the fact that you yourself refer to them as "little" conveys to me that you look down on the new players.

I think you are just someone with problems and is trying to start some unnecessary forum drama. There are plenty of other forums you can whine and moan in (there are even ones where people will take your bait!) but please don't do it here.

If a GM sees this please lock it, there is just no point to this thread anymore

There comes a time in every mans life when he steps back, looks around and says, "Wow!  Are those cookies!?"  ;)

Well before this thread gets locked, I'd like to step in and give my 2gp on the subjects being discussed here. First I'd like to say that even though some may regard me as a power gamer, I can assure you that I am not. Its funny sometimes when people see me die in game and think "Oh no!, Crimson died, that's unusual". Well the only reason I don't die often is because I'm not afraid of running away when things are too tough for me, not because I lost my concentration on killing something. The reason why I do die is because I didn't run away fast enough hehe.

If anyone were to take a good look at my armor you will see that I have a few items socketed, finally, but nothing is augmented yet. I also don't wear any runic armor, its mostly spined armor with a few special items I quested for or got as an arti. Most of that armor I have I received as a gift and its mostly luck armor and it doesn't have much else as far as stats. I have been playing on the shard for over 3 years now and have done perfectly fine without sockets or augments and less than perfect armor.

I'm a druid/tamer/mage and rely on my pet a lot when fighting. I do have probably the most, or next to the most powerful pet, in game. But the hardest thing I can probably take on with it is the Imp Slaver. It can't stand against the Ice fiend lord or Dr. Deth and quite a lot of mobs in Fel are very hard for me to solo with it. I don't spend a lot of time on any of these mobs or any type of powerful mob in game to get my gold. So you are all probably wondering where I do get my gold and how I got to be so rich. And yes I am among one of those who have over 10mil in the bank, but I'm cheap and don't like to spend my money often either hehe.

Well knowing where to hunt and what to hunt is the key and hunting isn't always where I get my gold either. I'm also a treasure hunter, I know where most of the best treasure chests are to loot and it would surprise some that not all these chests are in extremely dangerous spots either.(a WW shouldn't have any problems in most of these areas, and yes before my glacial that was one of my main pets)  I've also gained money selling things on the auction, its amazing how much something is worth to someone that you've had sitting in your home for 2 years that you barely glance at. That is how Karina made her millions lol.

And speaking of Karina, if you don't know her already she is my RL partner, and when she did play more often she too had made a name for herself on this shard as an uber rich player. She has 2 characters which are what some would say are high end characters. One is a druid/tamer/fighter and the other is mostly a fighter. Her characters are the complete opposite of mine. Both her characters are mostly or fully socketed/augmented and she has been on the shard slightly longer than I have. Her druid is also a treasure hunter and that is where she initially gained her gold to work up to where she is now.

Although she was able to take on a lot more things in game than I was she didn't attribute much of it to her sockets at all. She explained to me that although sockets help enhance your character they don't make you as powerful as some may think. She attributes a lot of her skill against killing the high end mobs, outside of Fel, to her skill in evasion. She believes that it isn't sockets and augments that are too powerful, its the evasion skill that is too powerful. In Fel you cannot use evasion and so its much harder to take on things there, even with her enhancements. Another skill she believes should be tweaked is the healing skill, she can bandage herself every 2.3 seconds automatically, which gives fighters with this skill an advantage to healing a lot quicker than someone who uses spells or druid trees.

She won't go to Fel, but not because of this restriction. She enjoys the challenge of fighting without her overpowered evasion skill, but HATES the fact that you cannot travel easily throughout Fel. She thinks Fel and Trammel should be set up more like how OSI has it where you can travel in Trammel easily like we do now and then separately travel the same way in Fel with only 1 way to travel back and forth to each facet. But that is a discussion for another time.

Both Karina and I have worked very hard to get to where we are now and making our millions in gold didn't happen overnight or in one week or in one month. It took Karina about a year or so to get to her status with all her sockets and augments and her hard earned gold. For me, well I have the gold and I think I have enough augments now to enhance my character, but I still don't have all my items socketed. A few reason for this is: I don't have enough valorite yet or the time to go mining for it, I want get some different armor pieces than what I have now (not sure what I want yet), I'm indecisive, and I don't have a lot of time to play, oh and I like to horde my gold rather than spend it.

Now even though I haven't gotten to use the benefits of sockets and augments I would disagree with their removal. It takes time and patience to benefit from these things and the players that I know have worked hard to reap the benefits of these implements. I do think that warrior vs tamer balance is still a little off, with warriors benefiting over druids. Maybe evasion and healing should be examined to determine whether or not they are a little too powerful. I know druid trees were determined to be overpowered and were adjusted then its only fair that some warrior skills should be looked into.

I also think that maybe adding some permanent tamables (they don't have to be glitzy either) kinda like the old colored dragons we had (like the black or blue dragons) which are a little more powerful than the every day White Wyrm but not nearly as powerful as a Glacial. And by permanent I mean they wouldn't be just a "special of the month spawn", they would be around all the time. I could see spawn rates longer than a WW spawn, but not as rare as a Glacial. (yes they would probably be farmed a lot in the beginning, but once the hype over them being a new tamable in the lands, like a WW, there won't be as many players after them and even less old school players trying to tame them) And taming skill to tame such creatures should be set high, because if your serious about taming then your skill should match. And they don't have to be in the form of a dragon either, there are a ton of tamables out there that you can model new creatures out of. I remember back when bake kitsunes were much more powerful than they are now and for a reason, unknown by me, they were changed.

Again I'm getting a little off topic I appologize, and by the looks of it I've written a book hehe. To sum it up, I don't want to see sockets or augments removed, for one day I too hope to be able to benefit from them, even if only by a little bit.  :D

Heh, Crimson does have a point here, I see quite a lot of the "high end" players without full socket (Crimson, Link, Eduges to name a few). A lot of it has to do with player skill - for example Link tanks Abraxius better than I do and he's got half my sockets and half my hp  ;D

Adding permanent tamables might be a great idea rather than strengthening current special tamables. There are things like greater dragons in OSI that are stronger than WW yet they arent in Sylvan, so I don't see why there shouldn't be a permanent spawn thats stronger than a WW.

And it is also true evasion is somewhat OP on this server. Grab about 200 dex and you can pretty much solo anything with 120 parry/110 bush. HOWEVER, this is only in the early stages. Most of the time I find that the places I CAN use evasion in, I usually don't need to (with the exception of a few mobs like Dr. Deth, Ice Fiend lord etc.). I believe in this way, evasion has been balanced.

A thought occurred to me on the way home, and so I figured I'd share it.

If a great number of our players are indeed socketing up and are able to "reach the top" and defeat the current spawn of bosses... now is not really the time to be nerfing our players! Instead now would be the probably about the absolute best time to create more monsters who could be placed at a higher level of the ladder... and/or add a bit more to old bosses.

In a basic way... it is the players "responsibility" to figure out the best, most efficient, easiest ways to defeat the spawn that is put against them. It seems to me that a number of us have done this very thing... and are still doing it. We ought not to me "nerfed" for doing what we are meant to do... the ball is actually back in the GM's court so to speak. They throw us monsters, we defeat them... they make more and send em out... we defeat... etc... it's just how it works. Granted the GMs don't have to (and likely do not have the time to) make a new mob the moment the current "hardest" (a relative term here) is defeated... I don't wanna over work our staff... but thing is... I'm betting they'd likely love to do that very thing - make mean monsters to torment us with lol  :D I know they are busy and probably do not get to do this as often as they like... making a good spawn isn't easy. You can't just plop some monster down and throw a ton of strength on it or give it extra mean fire breath and expect it to be the end all of fun bosses. Sure... doing that might make it mean... but, It takes creative thinking... studying and observing of current fighting tactics... to make a truly fun and difficult spawn.  It isn't easy. Our staff have done a great job thus far with this and I'm betting they are up to the task ;) 

Again, I understand it isn't easy to do and that there are great many other things staff are responsible for... especially right now with the holidays and quest and new quest spawn etc... You staff have done a wonderful job btw! But as a piece of food for thought... and as my opinion... IF many players are truly "reaching the top," it's not the time to nerf or re-balance... it is the time when the creative thinking and spawning skill of our staff can shine forth (or lurk forth hehe) in the form of a new horde nightmarishly hard spawn!

Now, I have heard tales of a new holiday spawn or something that is pretty mean hehe... I've yet to come across it yet hehe... but who knows... it could be the next top level! I dunno yet, but I'm looking forward to finding out! Like I said, I dunno about it yet, but if it is or not or whatever, thanks for yet another cool holiday spawn and keep up the good work!

(BTW, one thing... that might fit better in the wish list area maybe... but while I'm posting here figured might as well say something... I think it'd be cool if the Demenist lord spawned those tentacles of the harrower again hehe - them things be MEAN... and strangely, I'd like to face em again lol)

Another thought.... Should I kick myself for practically asking for death? Hmmm.... Naw... The mobs can do it for me later...

PS
About pets, I could be wrong not being a pro tamer like some... but I think that there are one or two "permanent" spawns that might be considered meaner than a WW... granted I'm thinking the spawn times on some of them are plenty longer than a WW... but anyway... also, about pets... (again I'm no pro on this but...) I'm thinking that even tho a WW might be generally the meanest of the regular tamables, it might not be strong against everything that is "at it's level." To use pets correctly and skillfully, you need to know how the enemy fights, what type of damage does it do? What kind of defences does it have? Does it heal a lot?  If you know these things and you know your pets very well, you will soon learn that a WW might be the strongest, but it might not be the best for all situations. Sometimes a "lesser" pet might be best or a combination of "lesser" pets... and ya might pick up some bard skills to help your pets hehe. I've heard "Disco" is in style lol. Again, I am no pro... but I'm thinking that is generally good tamer advice ;)

roc yes those pms consisted of me asking you once nicely  to stop getting in the middle of my conversations with gms because it was none of your business. Then you stating you will do no such thing because its your right and then your progressivly harrasing me after i repeatedly and more  bluntly and rudely as i went asking you to stop and stay out of my business  and to not EVER help me and your refused stating you will help me whenever you want just to intigate it further.  Dont play angel here because you aint  even tho you have most snowed with your "generous gifts". NOW shall i paste em here for everyone to see.   and i never said you didnt give stuff away.  I said you overcharged for other things

Also Ooc or oCC whatever it is  does drive teh price up insanely because yjay have the money to waste and very few if any can compete with it.   Its true its a fact  its the way it is.

Now feel free to lock it.  Or will we let roc have the last word as usual

skynar i wish u would quit whining u sound like a little girl come on i have seen u out bid people in auction for stuff its not are fault u dont wanna go hunt and make gold or get ur stuff socketed if u wanna be weak thats fine with me just quite dawging my friends on here and if u dont like what rocks sells his stuff for well i got news for u get ur own runic kits ur own ash and make stuff and sell it at what u want its not that freaking hard to get vs saved up i just ask quit whining and quite dawging my friends

ox

and if u dont like my post sry just getting tired of hearing bs on here

Quote from: Skynar on February 04, 2009, 01:57:48 AM
roc yes those pms consisted of me asking you once nicely  to stop getting in the middle of my conversations with gms because it was none of your business. Then you stating you will do no such thing because its your right and then your progressivly harrasing me after i repeatedly and more  bluntly and rudely as i went asking you to stop and stay out of my business  and to not EVER help me and your refused stating you will help me whenever you want just to intigate it further.  Dont play angel here because you aint  even tho you have most snowed with your "generous gifts". NOW shall i paste em here for everyone to see.   and i never said you didnt give stuff away.  I said you overcharged for other things

Also Ooc or oCC whatever it is  does drive teh price up insanely because yjay have the money to waste and very few if any can compete with it.   Its true its a fact  its the way it is.

Now feel free to lock it.  Or will we let roc have the last word as usual

You know this post is about people's opinions on sockets not personal attacks to me. If you got nothing good to say then shut it. And what you are talking about the day you kept asking in chat if any gm's are on in public chat and what not asking them to pm you. I told you in chat nicely the staff members dont really like it when people ask in chat over and over for they have a paging system for players to use to get in contact wit them. I was told by them and our SC at meeting by staff thats how they felt and even AESA told you that day you gotta paid and gm's didnt like to be asked for in chat. Im sorry you like that your problem not mine so dont go trying to dog people for your amusement. I really dont like you trying to dog my guild too, cause some players in OOC decide to save their gold or hunt alot and build their gold up for auction shouldnt be dogged and rudely criticized cause they earned it. I dont know whats wrong wit you dude but stop these pathetic posts.

Quote from: Skynar on February 04, 2009, 01:57:48 AM
Also Ooc or oCC whatever it is  does drive teh price up insanely because yjay have the money to waste and very few if any can compete with it.   Its true its a fact  its the way it is.

Get out and make you some dough....it can be done, you can do it.  Save up your dough......get some sockets.  It's alot of fun.  Go out and kill lotsa stuff.  Be pleasant, make some friends, go out hunting together.  Make more dough, save more dough.  Kill more stuff.  Save more dough.  Get more sockets.  Be a rich man before ya know it and please try not to make the poor little man case.  It doesn't work in a game setting where anyone has the ability, with some time and hard work, to be rich and powerful if they so choose.   You're only that way because you don't buck up and make yourself stronger!  Stop trying to make everyone think you can't do this or that because everyone else is overpowered, leaving you in the dust.  That's no excuse.  You can have everything everyone else has and more in this GAME, you just have to take advantage of the systems in place, put some time and effort in, which is all anyone else has done here because that's what this game is here for, that's it's purpose, can't you see?  It's all part of the fun.  Just enjoy.....it's what everyone else does.  Come join the fun and stop worrying so over everything.  Leave that junk for rl.  Don't expect things to be ruined for other players because you choose to stay at home and deco, yet still reap high benefits....that's definitely not fair.

Just my  2 cents   sockets are just fine  remove  evasion and  make it so i a warrior cant auto bandage every 2.3 seconds   Because that is why i could solo just about anything on the shard   take away my sockets and well maybe i wont be able to solo everything i used to  but take away the 2  mentioned above and well  i would have alot more trouble  soloing   , also about tamables  there need to be more regular spawning tameables that  can compete with some of the harder mobs   , and not stuff that spawns 1 time a month   maybe  once a week or  so   

Of course taking out those two foundational things would certainly weaken players a LOT... but why bother when we are at a prime time to get new spawn!   ;D  ...and of course evasion is removed for Fel already.... which is where most of the harder stuff is anyway.

Finding better tamables are like trying to find great armor/artifacts .... it's good stuff... not suppose to spawn often or be easy to find. Kinda like Doom stealables/drops Vs regular stealables/drops...

I really liked Karina's suggestions. I think maybe a set of chromatics that spawn regular but take a dedicated tamer to get would be cool. THat is white, green, black, blue, red. I'd also like to see some more mettalic Dragons out there. Copper, silver, gold, etc...

These dragons could be slightly stronger than a white wyrm and differ mainly in resists and attack but all be basically equal so tamers can have a dragon of te color they want to drag around.

The other suggestion was to cap speed on healing and remove evasion.

My comments on that are the best way to get rid of evasion is to do what Thane suggested and drop the skill cap. I would support refunds of vs or whatever (not money) to anyone that got a increased skillcap.

The other thing that can be done is there is a way to drop speed, but I believe that affects EVERYTHING on the shard if you do.

i say leave stuff the way it is and just make harder mobs to kill no reason to take away stuff players have gotten now i mean if they got that strong will don't stop them on the gm part make mobs harder where they cant be solo and that will solve the problem why punish people who earned for what they got working so hard for it and refunds i know if i gave cash to get a skill increase i wouldn't be a happy camper if they lowered the skill cap that would just be pointless then no one would want to donate if u take there stuff away what they dontaed for
just my 2 cents

ox

I say just lock this thread already lol.

This topic is not something that can be voted on because everyone has his own side - not to mention some of it is getting out of hand into a personal feud.

Stop reading! Lock it!

as usual...

1. shakka i deco because i like too.. that doesnt mean i wouldnt like to kill king kong mobs also
2. i have been working furiously  but when you cant afford the sockets or armor because they go for outragous prices. and only the people who already have them can affford to buy them. and when you find mythics in a blue moon that are actually rubys or emeralds... and legendary are scarce also
3. everyone from the beginning failed to see the one true point... Since this shard promotes family  and  team play.. why make it as it is now  so theyre is not much of that.  So my response to most is if you want to Hunt alone  Go to another shard because isnt this shard about family and teams.  Losing the sockets would clear that up real quik.
4. Why add more and stronger Mobs when we all know that the more.. the more lag..  So you would rather have more lag and issues with crashes then simply keeping the great mobs that are here and doing away with sockets. And since you all have stated that you really dont rely on them in one form or another here... why are you so adament to keep them?    just another sign or superiority for ego's?
5. why should i be forced to spend 8 hours killing what is in my range when , because of sockets, Other people can do in 30 minutes.
6. wow fun I get to go kill the same thing over and over for 6 months straight and then I may have some decent money  at which point i get outbid by someone with 10x the gp I have.

Its all easy for you to say  go grind away  when you dont have too.  I have put my work in and its bored me silly because it goes nowwhere because of the current way it is.

sorry  if people dont like what i say  but it doesnt make any of it less true.

Quote from: Skynar on February 05, 2009, 12:36:45 AM
Its all easy for you to say  go grind away  when you dont have too.  I have put my work in and its bored me silly because it goes nowwhere because of the current way it is.

That's true, I don't have to grind away anymore.  But I had to at one time, to get enough gold to socket up.  That was my goal back then.  I did that long ago for many months and now I have my sockets to enjoy.   Haven't you ever tried hunting in Homare, Tokuno?  That's where I farmed pleasing amounts of gold back before I got sockets.  I killed Oni's, Tsuki Wolves, Bake Kitsune....and no sockets.  Was tough but was fun too.  I hunted Destard many many times.  Again, was tough with no sockets but not impossible.  Go try there for awhile.  Not saying you will make the gold to power up in one night but it beats clomping orcs.  You need to keep in mind that all of the so-called overpowered players here were not always that way.  We all worked to get what we have now and enjoyed getting here.  At least I did anyway.

I don't think doing away with something that most ppl like to "force" them to hunt together all the time would be a very wise approach.  Nobody likes to be forced into doing something, especially when it comes to a (mostly) recreational activity such as a video game.  I enjoy group hunts as well but I do hunt alone alot too.  I am just a loner at times.  Also, I'm pretty sure you can acquire sockets rather inexpensively if you talk in the right way to the right person.  If you have a miner, you can always mine the val and get cheaper that way.  Though the last few items I had done, I paid for the val because......mining stinks on ice lol.  And I'm like Crimson, I horde my hard earned gold pretty much.  But anyway, bottom line is I've been here over 3 years.....I think I should have something to show for it and I do :)

i think  giting rid of sockiting wold be a ba dae it is waht brings pople to are sherd  git  ride that  it may   be the end of syalven heart

There have been a lot of good discussions here... and then there has been plenty of not playing nice.   I think we all get the idea and Staff will take it all into consideration.   Probably enough has been said here as it is.