- Enchanted Grove has been altered so only one grove can be planted at once
- Vet Rewards now show different name for Leather dye tub and Black dye tub
- Some fixes to the [dump [sort and [moveitems commands - please don't go experimenting with these commands though - they are known to have bugs and we don't want to crash the shard
- Various fixes to the ToolBox to allow various new things to be added
- If a player is in jail, they cannot use [c either
Quote from: Alder Ogham on November 06, 2007, 11:03:18 PM
- Enchanted Grove has been altered so only one grove can be planted at once
I'm hoping this is within a certain tile range and not across all the lands. That would really stink if say I'm in Blood about to use my trees and can't because someone in Destard already has them up.
I believe the effect of this spell is within screen range or thereabouts. Not one tree per shard.
I believe they mean that one player may only have one grove?
How could we have stepped on each other *laughs*
It is not shard wide, although we could arrange that if you wish. :evil grin:
Thank you Alder for everything :D
Is that per Druid?
What if you have more than 1 Druid in a hunting party?
Can they cast a tree at the same time I have?
~Jaz~
Sorry for so many questions.
Only one tree per screen, period. Doesn't matter if you have 12 druids in the party. Also, you won't see the sparkles that normally show up on the people covered by the tree. It was a source of lag. You cannot cast grove again for about 8 seconds.
Ok got it.
Thanks Aesa for answering all my questions.
~Jaz~
Changes have also made recalling or using sacred journey in or out of Occlo impossible now.
So if you have a house there, like I do, you have to walk back and forth to the public moongate to access your home.
Previous to the changes, this was not an issue.
Mainly, I think, because housing was allowed there.
Is this as intended or something that was overlooked?
Thank you for the changes and updates. As a druid I have to say I like the one about grove. To many trees cause so much lag, and no one seemed to listen about this, so thank you.
We will be able to fix the Ocllo issue, but we want to make sure everything else is going to work when we remove the region controlers. Thanks for reminding me, Loff'ta.
Skygud nub see Loff'ta?
*Cries*
Me nub Rithik!
Me juz burruwd sum purty dresez frum Rithik...
Loff'ta gunna chop dem crepe myrtle trezz und set dem un da fire!
*lookz in da mirrur*
Me nub ebun luuk lik Rithik!
Loff'ta am much mur sexy den Rithik!
*shakes fists at Skygud...den hidz*
*points up*
I noticed today while hunting in Alarics dungeon that I can not use my bushido skill no more the evasion one. Was this intended? I used to, to be able to kill the anicent wyrm in level 3 hehe
"Enchanted Grove has been altered so only one grove can be planted at once"
Perhaps a good idea... but I think the timing is off and it is driving me nuts.... I can't stand it and it is almost enough to make me want to not be a druid anymore.... ok... enough rant... time to say something I hope to be helpful and explainitory... about the timing...
Seems the grove does not heal at the same rate throughout its "life span." (has been that way since I can remember... but hasn't been a prob till now) Also, you can not cast a grove right after one goes down.... you have to wait a few seconds in which time you can EASILY die... I am a mage and have no normal healing like via bandages. I depend on grove like a non-mage depends on having banages. I have to watch it and time it so that I keep it up all the time. I bet I'm not the only person like this either! If it falls, and I can't get it up for a few secs... and I'm fighting something fairly mean.... I'm doomed. So... I'd like to have this fixed:
1. let it heal at the same rate throughout its "life span" since we can only have one up at a time...
(or two for 2-3 secs... see #2)
2. let you be able to cast right after it falls.... preferably give maybe 2 or 3 secs of leyway so that you don't have to hit it exactly on time.... honestly it can be hard to keep perfect timing while getting your tail kicked and working a bunch of other spells/skills so a few seconds leyway would be nice... that would indeed alow two groves to exist at the same time on the same screen, but only for the amount of leyway time (2-3 secs), so hopefully not a big deal.
In all honesty I really don't like the grove change (cept the sparkles being gone)... I think it might be trying to fix something that isn't broke.... but I can understand the purpose and see it as.... "good".... but PLEASE PLEASE PLEASEEEEEEeeeeeee... *choke* please... fix those things mentioned before I go crazy and pull out all my hair and throw my computer out the window or or something.... ok maybe that was an exageration from exasperation.... but still PLEASE :'(
-edit-
PS.
I also think having two per screen without timing restrictions on when the second can be cast.... would not be such a bad thing.... we would just have to learn to time them to keep one up for a hopfully constant time... in other words.... no limit on leyway time.... just alowing two to be put up... and people learn to time them maybe.... This way you can precast and not have to worry about casting your precast too soon and loosing it because of timing being off.... that is soooo sooo (I can hardly emphasize it enough) soooo annoying :'(
Umm.. I hate to point something out Cpt. but you should have spring of life and Greater heal to heal yourself..... As for the delay between trees being up, I think that intentional. I personally find this challenge (on my druid char Rowen) much more fun, and as a druid I also have bandages and always have because even the grove couldn't keep up healing and casting it at the same time, lest I would never do any damage.
I think this makes for more use of the variety of spells, rather than relying on a single "do it all" spell. Really, with the grove, spells like Spring of Life and Greater Heal, while they are great spells, are virtually never used. The reduction of power of the Grove really allows the other Druid spells to shine.
Quote from: seterwind on November 08, 2007, 06:59:50 AM
Umm.. I hate to point something out Cpt. but you should have spring of life and Greater heal to heal yourself..... As for the delay between trees being up, I think that intentional. I personally find this challenge (on my druid char Rowen) much more fun, and as a druid I also have bandages and always have because even the grove couldn't keep up healing and casting it at the same time, lest I would never do any damage.
I think this makes for more use of the variety of spells, rather than relying on a single "do it all" spell. Really, with the grove, spells like Spring of Life and Greater Heal, while they are great spells, are virtually never used. The reduction of power of the Grove really allows the other Druid spells to shine.
Ok... well.... let me clearify so I am not misunderstood....
Grove dosn't need to be compared to Spring of Life and Greater Heal and whether or not they shine. Spring of life is pretty much a copy of Greater heal... both of which arn't really that great for me in my opinion other than for a quick heal outside of heated combat.... -edit- oops forgot something important that I use Spring of Life and Greater Heal for (really only GH because I knew it and used it before SoL hehe) ... healing pets! Grove is no good for that... so these spells still shine on their own for me for sure! (I have no vet... no room for it either) -end edit- and this is why Spring of Life and Greater Heal are mostly only good for that....
They are one time heals.... not even as good as bandages in that respect as far as I can tell.... they are therefor not a replacment for bandages (and certainly not for grove) for those of us who don't want bandage healing... You can never hope to cast either one enough to keep you alive against anything that has any amount of real "mean-ness" to it... much less a group of mean things!!! (and even if you could somehow cast it fast enough... -and I have like +4 or 5 FC btw- then you really would not have any time for damage hehe... it'd be a casting fest lol)
And not everyone thinks bandage healing is needed or wanted... and I don't... and honestly don't have room for it in my skill set. Grove is a wonderful mage replacment for constant, in-battle, "non-pause to constantly cast (like greater heal)" type healing that works for those who don't want bandages for whatever reason.... This change isn't fun for me and is about to drive me up the wall.... seems more like a handycap compared to others.... I had my timing fairly worked out before... and could do damage quite well while keeping grove up... now... well, I can recieve damage pretty well :-\
Now with that being said.... I do believe the delay was intentional... but just because it is intentional doesn't mean it is "good," and for me it seems "broken." The whole number count on the groves has a good intention to fix a "problem," but I really don't think it was that much of a problem (I could be wrong tho) because I think most people try not to get more than two groves per screen anyway... although people do make mistakes and cast them at the same time... but from what I can tell it seems more the exception than the rule to have that happen.... and therefore to me it doesn't seem like a serious problem in need of "fixing." As I said tho... I could be wrong, and it could be happening a lot more than I see... but still, even if the grove counts stays... I think this "fix" is is need of a "fix" itself. And so again, I beg that it please be fixed!
Capt, what you may not realize is that the staff deliberated for a long time and this was agreed upon by all of the staff members as a way to A. reduce lag and B. put a little balance back into the game. I think players sometimes forget that we play on the shard as well and those changes or "fixes" that we implemented affect us, too. Many of the staff play druids on one alt or another and so far none of us are screaming "OMG, that has to change". It does make things a bit more challenging and you really have to play smart now instead of just sitting there and letting 12 dragons munch on you. Time to rethink your strategy and use your grove when you really need it and not cast it before you even have one hit point reduced. And don't forget the important of running! If you were in a bind before you just cast grove or multiple groves and were saved in 2 seconds. Now, run, heal, regroup and go back. Or let your pet take some of the damage while you have time to heal up. I have a druid and have tested the new grove with my player. It takes a bit of getting used to, but I'm up for the challenge of learning new techniques to stay alive. What's the worst that'll happen? You'll die and lose what isn't insured. That rarely happens on this shard as we have the friendliest, most helpful player base I've ever seen and you'll find at least one person that's willing to come lend a hand to get your stuff back. And if you're insured your good stuff, then you may lose reagents, water pitchers and current loot. No big deal! It's easily replaced after killing a few monsters with good loot.
I would just like to say that I am glad that the grove has been altered in this way. Before It was way too powerful and got players into trouble that they weren't ready to handle yet. Plus the lag issue is nice.
Jager/Shane/Phoenix
thank oh great ones .... there are too many times that too many trees can cost you your life in game . and thank you for the other additions as well.
The changes that have been made with the grove spell, in my humble opinion, are long overdue. It definately makes things much more challenging for your typical druid, which I think is wonderful!
If you cannot handle whatever you're hunting without constantly casting the grove spell, then maybe you need to change your hunting techniques to adapt.
I personally never relied on an enchanted grove while hunting alone with my druid because of the lag factor. The main time I use it alone is after I've retrieved my belongings when something has eaten me and I'm in a hurry to die again to it!
*Monsters need to eat to you know!*
The most effective way that I've found for using the grove spell is during group hunts. When you have warriors pounding down something that is trying to kill you and your little pet too...and anything and everything else in the line of sight!
You're really limiting yourself if one spell is the determing factor on how you successfully hunt. There are tons of options out there for players. You can always get better armor, use potions, hunt with groups, or utilize other skills etc... to make your hunting experience more enjoyable.
If, after doing all that you find that you still cannot slay something you use to kill easily before the changes made were implemented, I'd advise hunting something else. Because that just proves the spell was "too powerful" and needed to be modified in order to provide more balance for the shard.
I, for one, am grateful for anything that helps to reduce lag and makes the game more challenging. But then I don't mind dying either...lol.
*BTW-Thank you skygud for noticing Loff'ta is not Rithik. Plants some crepe myrtles and puts the fires out.*
I have to agree that the grove fix was a necessary fix. Too many times I would see anywhere from 2 - 4 trees up at any given time during hunts. That is just not reasonable. Now, you have to gauge when it's going to run out and precast at the right time to drop it down when it poofs. I personally never really "need" a grove up when I'm hunting on my druid. I just use one if I'm going to be casting lots of swarms or volcanoes for the mana regen. I for one am glad to see this fix.
Ok.... I think it was well balanced before. And, it was chalangeing before and I enjoyed it... now I do not enjoying it and do not ejoying hunting which is a big reason I play...
I don't use pets most of the time I like doing it myself. (though I heal others pets)
Players have bunches of stuff fight them without Grove and they win. They use bandages. I don't use bandages, I use grove and now that it is different, it serverly handycaps me. I used to be able to fight about the same as people using bandages and have about the same amount of things fight me... I don't even care to try that now... I can't even enjoy a good solo hunt anymore... I'm just depressed.
And... telling me I should change how and what I fight? And that just because one "little" change can break my char means the spell was too powerful and I have "poor" fighting skills to depend on it??? Oooook, so suddenly not being able to heal in the mist of heated combat shouldn't affect me any? I don't care to be fored into using bandages and changing my char template just so that I can have constant healing like bandages.
Limiting groves per screen is a good idea to reduce lag and help people play smarter... but this timing thing is a handycap that breaks my char. Maybe I'm one of kind in my style of fighting, but it shouldn't mean I'm weak and need to rethink my template to be more like everyone else >:( As far as it being more chalanging... oh ya I bet it is indeed! Take away bandage healing or handycap it serverly and see how chalanging things become... chalange doesn't always = good game. Sometimes it just = agrivating pain. This all may be fine for many people... and I'm sure if you took out the chivalry teleport spell then many people wouldn't care because you can still use magery teleport for goodness sake! But, the paladins would raise cain I bet! That is a non-battle non-hunt affecting spell example for the most part.... now this change affects hunting and fighting... so of course it is pretty agrivating for me a person who loves hunting and fighting.
"I would just like to say that I am glad that the grove has been altered in this way. Before It was way too powerful and got players into trouble that they weren't ready to handle yet. Plus the lag issue is nice. "
Jager... you can handle just about any reasonable thing or group of monsters solo without grove anyway.... (maybe that means you're healing and stuff is too powerful and needs to be balanced.... not in my opinion) And... who cares if we want to get into trouble we can't handle? If we want to be crazy then we can! I certainly do LOL. And, by that very statement you are saying in so many words that the spell is not too powerful because it does not allow players to take on stuff that they shouldn't be able to... hence they get into trouble they can't handle even with grove! And the lag issue is nice.... I'm not talking as much about limiting it per screen (although I am to some extent... I think it should be 2)... I'm talking about the timing (which would be fixed possibly by allowing 2).
"You're really limiting yourself if one spell is the determing factor on how you successfully hunt. There are tons of options out there for players. You can always get better armor, use potions, hunt with groups, or utilize other skills etc... to make your hunting experience more enjoyable. "
Limiting myself because I like to be able to heal without bandages? Some people like to heal with bandages and without grove... they aren't said to be limiting theirselves.... And Yes, it is a determining factor! Of course it is! It is healing for goodness sake! You can hardly effectly hunt if you can't effectivly heal!
Let me address each of these...
better armor: Have you seen my armor? It rocks... but it is good... but this hasn't helped me make up for this new handycap...
use potions: I use a two handed weapon.... kinda hard to drink potions... I depend on my weapon heavily... of course what warrior doesn't lol!
hunt with groups: not everyone is a group hunter, and should not be forced to be so. True, they might not can take on some things outside of a group... that is natural and their choice. I myself like solo hunts and very small group hunts. I don't like large group hunts... and I give up fighting some things because of that... it is my choice.
utilize other skills: My template is very diverse... about 11 or 12 skills and I use them all! And most all of them are for battle... however, I do not have healing via bandages and should not be forced to have it in order to be able to fight like other people.
Maybe I'm the only one in this whole world who doesn't like this because I have a very non-typical druid or something.... and at this rate I'm probly one of the last of my kind. I loved being unique... until now... and now I'm handycapped and can't stand it. This choice for change probably was thought about a lot by staff, but I think it needs to be considered some more.... You can consider this first attempt a test run... well it has been and is being tested.... and here is one person who is pointing something important out which may or may not have been considered before... it happens, you can hardly forsee everything and hardly know how it will affect everyone just because some people tried it and liked it, doesn't mean it is perfect and I'm sure you know that already. Again... this bears repeating... addressing the lag issue with a grove count can be a good idea... but maybe make it two in order to fix the timing... or just fix the timing and the healing rate please.
I'm not trying to be mean or completly one-sided on this.... I see the good in it... but I also see this glaring bad and I'm only begging to have it changed and trying my best to present my reasons as clearly and convincingly as possible. Yall do a god job running this place and I thank you for it. You are kind and care about players and listen to them, and I have paid many complements to various people I know about how good this place is... so please hear me now and help me... please do not turn a def ear to my plea thinking that I am only one annoying player who just doesn't consider what is he talking about and doesn't see what you are trying to do for the good of the shard. I know you are working for the good of the shard... and so am I too in what ways I can. Pleaing for this to be changed is one thing I can do to help the shard for good amoung the other things I have done and am doing. You the staff and admins should know me well... and know just how much I love this place.... I care about the shard as a whole and I care very much of each individual in it. I sincerly hope you re-consider this and help bring back my enjoyment in playing on this shard.
This isn't meant to complain but just my 2 cents ok :) You guys have been doing great things with the shard and its great when you cut out the lag when you can :)
But.........weren't we dieing enough already? *Giggling*
Seriously tho the length of time the grove is up is too short for those of us that need it in a bad spot and have to run back and hope our pets dont die in the time it takes us to run heal and run back and then have to wait a minute for another grove hoping we can get the pets healed in time to be able to cast spells again. Yes I have potions and yes I use other spells as well but without the grove to help me in a bad spot i'm hurting :( I'm also one of the ones that cant heal with bandages in order to use other skills.
Maybe you could make it 2 groves with the timing or make just 1 grove a little longer lasting?
However you can make it just keep up the good works :)
Thanks for listening :)
P.S. I dont use the grove unless a bad spot or rezing people .
oh my goodness. I swear. Whiners *pokes them* I think it's a great Idea for the groves. Though I will slightly agree that maybe, since you can only have one per screen, their life span should be a tad longer, this gives druids a chance to actually be played out properly and not lean back on full support of groves..or several groves for that matter. Though I find it a lil strange that there is only one per screen I am thinking this as to less lag issues. We can all agree that is a yeahie in the department. I also see this as a way to nudge players to hunt together, which is also a yeahie. Group hunts with friends are fun!
I also noted that there was a change to fishing or is that just me? ???
I did some re-thinkg... trying to see all points of view... and consider the idea of longer groves...
My conclusion:
Yea we die plenty already! lol
longer groves won't help... this is because it doesn't heal at the same rate throughout its "life span" and the delay between groves in combo with that.... well that is what is hurting.
Another solution:
Having reconsidered this... and re-thought the working thereof...
If you made groves heal at the same rate through thier "life span" and then allowed people to recast groves right after one falls (no delay)... that would fix it I think... You wouldn't need any leyway time (the 2-3 secs I thought of before) because it would be healing the same through its "life span," and, you wouldn't even need two per-screen for the same reason. Just watch the grove and when it falls have your pre-cast ready or be prepared to die!!! And for goodness sake don't cast while it is still up or you'll have to re-precast and might not make it in time!
"Whiners *pokes them* " heeeey... meany :( no more fish for you kitty! j/k hehe *pokes back* ha!
-edit-
I use grove in tight spots... I love putting myself in bad spots lol... might be a pain at times, but ultimatly I love it... fighting things so mean that I can die even standing in the middle of a new grove! I get rezed and come right back to it! ... or go get a friend to help hehe.
-end edit-
Personally I don't mind the changes at all. Besides, this shard is free to play and it has the best staff and player base ever, which makes it all the better. Yeah it was nice to recast trees when you knew your first set was about to fade, but this change spices everything up.
The main reason I use trees is for the mana regen benefit, the healing part is just an added perk I think which is very nice in certain situations. My main is a pure druid/tamer and I have yet to socket anything I own, mostly because I haven't decided which gems to use yet. So I rely on trees quite a bit, but even with these changes I can work around them quite easily and if I can't, like Aesa posted, I run. If I don't run quick enough or not at all then I die. Oh well, then I make the best of it and if I really can't get my items myself then I ask for help. 9 times out of 10 there is someone around to assist that is more than happy to help.
I'm just content with the fact that trees were limited per screen and not serverwide. :D
Captain, I'm very curious of your build. You mention about a lot of things you can't get because it's too full. I'm a warrior smith on one char. I have mining and smithing, and able to tank near as good as Phoenix.
I have Rowen who is a warrior druid, who is not effected what so ever by these changes, and can tank as good as my warrior and has a grove and some killer pets, and vet.
If you don't like banadages (and from your seeming complaints about how warriors can use them) they are the only way warriors have to heal, unless they have necromancy or magery in that case, they still shell out and train up 100 healing to be able to use them... because it's the general concencous that it's the best way to heal.
I am curious on what your char is supposed to be, since you have the min req for druids but don't use pets often, I find that you are very much just a druid warrior for just the grove. Which is kind of going against the point of a druid... I'm sad to hear this change has altered greatly your standard way of fighitng, but adapting and perhaps incorperating new styles would be good.
Potions can be used with razor if you check (Unequip and reequip for drinking potions). If you don't use razor you can make a macro in game (un equip, equip last use last item) to do it as well.
Or you can get Hit point regen armor. Armor of the Fallen king does wonders I believe... there are a lot of other options other then Healing, or using a pet to tank for you and such.
Druids are basically tamer/mages.
Prehaps this is why those skills are needed in order to hold a druid staff, which has to be held in order to cast any of the druid spells.
My druid is a mage/bard/tamer.
The only time I use bandages is to heal my pets.
My barding skills have saved me more times then any laggy trees ever have and the effects are instant, unless of course I fail.
Druids that have healing generally also have fighting skills, which allows them to use a druid staff as a weapon.
Most of the druids I know use pets and magery in battles and do well.
They basically use the groves for aiding in mana regeneration, not prodominantly for healing themselves.
To me it's quicker to down a greater heal potion and run, if needed, then to cast enchanted grove for healing.
Using potions while battling is not an issue if you use razor and check the option to auto un/re-equip hands for potions.
That being the case, I don't really see why anyone would place so much emphasis on one druid spell.
As I said before, you're really limiting yourself if one spell is the determing factor on how you successfully hunt.
There is more then one way to heal and more then one way to hunt.
If you have good armor, good stats, a good connection, and use the numerous resources available to you in the game, then you really don't need to use trees in order to hunt.
Aye, seterwind hit it on the dot.
The grove was overpowered. Templates are everything. If you'd like I can build you a specific template to your needs and can almost guarntee you a successful hunting experience. Keep in mind though, there are monsters and spawns that even the strongest and best templates on the shard cannot defeat solo.
Some tactics too. Either Pm me, or respond here and I am willing to share all my knowledge to help you.
-Ironhand
"I have Rowen who is a warrior druid, who is not effected what so ever by these changes, and can tank as good as my warrior and has a grove and some killer pets, and vet. "
I am druid... and don't use pets.... so I must be my own tank. I might not be as good as a warrior tank but I can take that and enjoy my uniqueness and variety of skills to make up for it as long as I can still effectivly fight :)
"If you don't like banadages (and from your seeming complaints about how warriors can use them) they are the only way warriors have to heal, unless they have necromancy or magery in that case, they still shell out and train up 100 healing to be able to use them... because it's the general concencous that it's the best way to heal. "
NO no no... you got me all wrong... Warriors bandages are great for them, and I have no complaints about them for those who want to use them! And, it may indeed be the best way to heal beating grove hands down... Again, I have no complaints about people using bandages! It's just that bandages aren't for me. I personally just don't like them period. And, if bandages are really all that great and are better than grove then why don't they get "changed" to balance? Please don't take that seriously. I don't want bandages changed at all, but I am just saying... if it is better than or as good as grove... and it is ok (and I think it is great)... why is grove considered unbalanced? I think neither way was unbalanced till now... and now the balance is against grove :'( (not an intentional unbalance I'm sure... but still unbalanced for me. :'( ) Grove did need fixing... as the one per-screen thing to reduce lag... but if only one per-screen... then I hope the healiong rate is maintained throughout its "life span" and the delay between groves is removed. This solution should return the balance of the land and still help fight lag as far as I can tell. (and btw hehe... I should know all too well about lag! Dial-up :-\ )
"I am curious on what your char is supposed to be, since you have the min req for druids but don't use pets often, I find that you are very much just a druid warrior for just the grove. Which is kind of going against the point of a druid... I'm sad to hear this change has altered greatly your standard way of fighitng, but adapting and perhaps incorperating new styles would be good."
You hit the nail on the head.... well almost.... I am a druid warrior... but not just for grove... it it were just for grove then why not just use bandages instead and give myself some more skill space maybe?
I am druid warrior because I like casting the spells and being a tamer. I do have pets... I love having them... I just don't use them. I love the druid spells: grove (duh), volcanic erruption (roast em!), swarm of insects (sting em!), pack of beast (sick em!), and summon ent friend (pound em! Love that lil extra musle hehe)... ooo ooo and I love druid vision! that is soo fun and VERY useful.... and cloning can't be beat for unsurpassed funniness and fun and at times good for battle too! (nothing like sicking the creature on itself... or two of me... and you all thought one of me was bad enough! hehe) I love em, love em, love em hehe.
"Potions can be used with razor if you check (Unequip and reequip for drinking potions). If you don't use razor you can make a macro in game (un equip, equip last use last item) to do it as well. "
Call me old fashion, but I don't use razor and don't plan to ever... plus not all people can use it right? Yes, I do have equip and un-equip macros... but they are naturally delayed pretty well... so it might go something like this:
Me: oh no I need to drink my healing potion! *drops staff and takes a drink*
Monster: *pounds the life out of me as I drink*
Me: 1.*dies drinking* or 2. ah that was refreshing... now where did I put that staff *looks for it* (my RP explaination for the delay time on the macro lol).... oh there it is! *dies*
"Or you can get Hit point regen armor. Armor of the Fallen king does wonders I believe... there are a lot of other options other then Healing, or using a pet to tank for you and such. "
One, how you gonna kill those things to get those drops if you can't effectivly fight.... how can you get augments if you can't effectly fight... Also, what if I don't want to socket regen... what if I have other plans... (which I do). Also, I'm not sure regen works that great anyway unless you get a TON of it... I have some regen on my armor if I remember right... and it isn't all that and I don't want to spend all my sockets to get halfway decent HP regen.
Two, again, I don't use pets... one reason being: I like doing it myself. Other reason: only 100 taming... just enough to make me a happy tamer... not enough to use pets effectly in battle because my stable is too full... I used jewelry (not my main jewelry) to get 120 taming and then put more pets into my stable... I hardly feel like changing my jewelry in the mist of heated combat LOL.... oh wait a sec Mr. Dragon... I have to change my jewelry lol! Also, I don't have vet... so ouchy to my poor pets :-\ So, I like having pets just because I like them... they look cool and I love em :) But they don't help me much in battle hehe. They're "indoor" pets lol!
PS.
Thanks Iron... but I like me as me and I like to make my own. I was fine and my template worked well... till now. No offence, but I do just like my template the way it is ;)
PSS.
"Druids are..."
Druids are whatever we want to make them and however we want to make them and rp-play them.
There are some generic style/templates (or commonly used I mean)... doesn't mean everyone are those or wants to be those.
-edit-
"you're really limiting yourself"
Isn't everyone dependant on something? Everyone is limited in some way... Grove is a main factor for me.... dosn't mean my template is bad... or that I am weak skilled, have bad armor, or whatever... just means I am unique and that grove is my main way of healing when in heated battle... if the battle isn't that bad... I use greater heal, but when fighting a bunch of stuff... greater heal doesn't cut it and potions are even worse.
Hello, I am Rithik and I would just like to say that since his and all his allts templates defensive sides are based on the unrestricted, unbalanced and generally ignored warrior mechanics he remains yet again uneffected by yet another nerf
Rithik would be pleased if he hadn't gone to that grump oldbie home.
*Last nerf to effect Rithik or Rithik's allts = Bandage speed nerf from 2 years ago :-P
Cpt, sometimes you have to choose between RP and effective. You do it your way because of RP purposes and that's fine. But you have to accept the concequences of it.
You have to have animal taming and magery to become a druid. That means 200 points of your 1200 total skill points are being taken up. It's your choice: use it or not. If not, you're weakening your build by that many points. A Druid Does have taming and magery, so any Druid template built well WILL use taming and magery.
The Ideal template is one that utilizes All 1200 skill points. And it can be very easy to make a build use them all. Such a build will inherently be more powerful than a build only utilizing, say, 1100, or 1000 skill points.
This is because skill points give you power.
The very fact that you have 100 taming and Aren't Using It In Battle means your template is inherently flawed for combat. Not that its worthless, it can be just fine, wonderful for RP purposes. But for combat, you'd be better off scratching that 100 pts in taming and instead getting 100 pts in healing.
It is a fact that the grove was overpowered. It's plainly obvious because of cases such as yourself. You rely on the grove as your only real mainstay.
In essense: if you're not willing to do what it takes to be a good fighter, then you won't be a good fighter. This is A. How the GMs decided it should be done and B. more balanced. A person who builds his/her build poorly for RP purposes should not be an extremely good fighter. It's the person who builds the tenplate for fighting who should be a good fighter.
I'm sorry, but all I can do is laugh at your arguments for enchanted grove.
EVERYONE is unique and has their very own playing style.
No two characters are alike nor battle the same as others.
If you choose not to adapt to changes, in order to maintain some sort of uniqueness, more power to you!
But there are many options out there that basically make enchanted grove unnecessary for a druid, regardless of what other skills they may or may not have on their template.
If you can no longer hunt, solely as a result of changes that were made to one spell, then you're probably hunting things that were not meant for solo hunting.
Enchanted grove was changed in a way that made it a more balanced spell.
It was never meant to be used as the primary source of healing for a druid.
The changes to it should have little effect on players who use the skills they need to hunt and choose to play as druids.
Not using pets to hunt as a druid is your choice. Having warrior skills and not using healing to heal is your choice.
Not using razor to better use potions is your choice. Building a character that seemingly relies on one spell to hunt is your choice. Not utilizing other options available to you, that would allow you to hunt more effectively, is your choice.
Not being able to hunt because of the changes to enchanted grove is because of the choices you made, not because of the changes made to the spell.
The changes benefit the entire shard by providing more balance and creating less lag, as well as other things.
I have changed all of my characters numerous times to accommodate changes made to the game.
They are all unique and I am better able to play as a result.
But then none of them rely on enchanted grove for healing in the heat of a battle...
Quote from: TTG on November 08, 2007, 08:19:32 PM
Keep in mind though, there are monsters and spawns that even the strongest and best templates on the shard cannot defeat solo.
False!, believe me on that one. I aint joking either.
"Cpt, sometimes you have to choose between RP and effective. You do it your way because of RP purposes and that's fine. But you have to accept the concequences of it."
The skill I seemingly have for RP is Taming... I have it so that I can be a druid and so I can fight and use the druid spells... but since I have taming, I decided to use it for RP mostly... that doesn't make me suffer... that is required to be a druid which helps give me power.... Magery BTW I use for healing people's pets and for teleporting and doing other things... magery is also very useful in battle and I use it constanly! But Greater healing is not usful in battle!
"The Ideal template is one that utilizes All 1200 skill points. And it can be very easy to make a build use them all. Such a build will inherently be more powerful than a build only utilizing, say, 1100, or 1000 skill points."
I have used all 1200 skill points and mostly every single one of em is used for battle. I just don't have bandage healing and should not be forced to! My template is just fine...
"The very fact that you have 100 taming and Aren't Using It In Battle means your template is inherently flawed for combat. "
You obviously don't know my template and I don't care to share it with everyone... and I feel down right insulted.... please quit insulting me.
"It is a fact that the grove was overpowered. It's plainly obvious because of cases such as yourself. You rely on the grove as your only real mainstay."
Grove is NOT overpowered.... Just because I rely on it for healing doesn't mean I am a case for it being overpowered.... does this mean bandages are overpowered because people rely so heavily on them to heal and can take on tons of monsters at a time without a single tree in sight??? Does this mean that people who rely heavily on bandages for healing are flawed???
" if you're not willing to do what it takes to be a good fighter, then you won't be a good fighter."
I am not a noob... I made a good fighting char... this change is cripling me because it affects my healing.
"A. How the GMs decided it should be done " - yes... I know that...
"B. more balanced" - nope...
"A person who builds his/her build poorly for RP purposes should not be an extremely good fighter. It's the person who builds the template for fighting who should be a good fighter."
As I said, I built for fighting and not for RP!!! And who says you can't have a little of both!? And, again I feel insulted.... "poorly for RP purposes"... yes I am insulted... If you want to discuss this subject, please do so without furtrher insulting me.
"I'm sorry, but all I can do is laugh at your arguments for enchanted grove."
I don't appreciate being laughed at just because you disagree... I have put out valid arguments to give my point and have thought this stuff out very much before posting... I read carefully your post and replies before I respond... I even do quotes and repond to points people make. If you can't do that and you don't agree with me, please don't retailiate by insulting me.... just quote my post points and reply to them logically!
why are you people insulting me??
"But there are many options out there that basically make enchanted grove unnecessary for a druid, regardless of what other skills they may or may not have on their template."
It is necessary for me or I wouldn't be trying to get it fixed....
"Not using pets to hunt as a druid is your choice. "
That it is, and who says I MUST be a typical druid beast master to be a good fighter?
"Having warrior skills and not using healing to heal is your choice."
Aye, and it worked fine because there was an effective alternate in Grove...
"Not using razor to better use potions is your choice. "
My computer is slow enough and laggy enough as it is without Razor helping it"
"Building a character that seemingly relies on one spell to hunt is your choice."
How about building a template that replies on bandages? Not much different!
"Not utilizing other options available to you, that would allow you to hunt more effectively, is your choice."
What options other than healing don't I have that would help me fight better? Do you even know how well I fought before? I doubt you do... so to let you know, I was fine before and could take on a seeker solo for example with no pets. Which is not a bad thing since people who don't use grove can do that too if they are good warriors!
"Not being able to hunt because of the changes to enchanted grove is because of the choices you made, not because of the changes made to the spell."
False... or at the most only indirectly true.... take a closer look at what you just said... let me rearrange it for ya:
"Not being able to hunt because of the changes to enchanted grove ((is)) not because of the changes made to ((enchanted grove))."
Now do what? I'm not trying to be rude but.... Sounds contradictory to me.... but I do think I get what you are saying... kinda... and my response...
I made those choices and was fine... now it is unbalanced and is not fine. It breaks my healing! Healing is essential for fighting!!! So naturally, you break my healing then you break my fighting! I rely on grove healing.... others rely on bandage healing... what is the difference??? Why must everyone be forced to reply on bandages?? Wouldn't that make Grove kinda pointless... I mean if everyone has healing why use grove at all?? Grove is not overpowered, it is mostly an alternate for bandages for those of us who don't want healing in our template... and again... not having healing doesn't = bad tempate.
For people relying to me in the future, please, if you want to reply to me... do so politly and try to read my whole post (yes it is kinda long but still) to get the whole picture....
-edit- I care very much for this shard and its people and do not appreciate being treated rudly and hope people consideratly read my whole post... I'm am making an honest plea for a change that I think will return balance to the shard. We are each entitled to our views -end edit-
-edit-
Ok... seems this has drifted away into a discussion about whether Grove is overpowerd or not and whether I am a good player or not.... So in getting back more closly to the subject.... I restate my plea:
I just want grove to heal at the same rate throughout its "life span" and have the delay between grove casting taken out...
This is a fairly simple request and should not matter much over the current changes to those who don't like grove.... But it will restore balance for me (and I believe others as well while still adding some extra chalenge and reducing lag). Please do this so I can enjoy more fully my playing on this shard again...
-end edit-
Returning balance to the shard would be the 'nerf' to the trees that you see now.
As they were, the trees were imbalanced. Granting a caster seemingly infinite mana and nearly full heals and full stam is amazing. You were relying on one spell to preform, which is fine, but that spell was unfortunately to powerful. Trees, in the native script I believe, only regenerated mana, and not the mana of the caster. It was a group spell to give power to others at your own expense. Trees on this shard were buffed by including stam, hit points, and mana of the caster, AND significantly increased the regeneration rates. If you would rather the original script I'm sure they would consider it, but I would take my blessings and say thank you to the original editor.
Your argument for nerfing bandages isn't as valid as you are pushing, unless bandages heal you for 100 hit points every .5 seconds, and regenerate all of your mana and stamina. Right now the fastest bandage is 1.85 seconds and they heal for about 50-60 hit points, and can be interrupted and delayed if you are being hit. An alternative to bring trees to the level of bandages and other forms of healing could be that it delays the healing based on the number of hits you are receiving, just like bandages or spell casting does. In my mind even that would be almost to powerful because of the massive power that the trees have anyway. Also, they can not be dispelled by anyone or stopped unlike any other form of healing, meaning if they are up you will be healed. They could also make it so they could be dispelled by mobs with hit dispell, that too would be an alternative to lower the effectiveness but not lose it's worth.
There are TONS of ways that this could change, and every single one of them is 'worse' then this, and each brings trees to a level of similarity to its counter parts. Trees now have a casting delay essentially, just like every other healing skill. If you rely on them for healing, use a different healing spell during those few seconds then recast them. We aren't asking you to change you playing style, just make one accommodation to bring less lag and more balance. Can you honestly say that being attacked by 10 things with no healing and never dying unless you were one shot was balanced?
-Knossos
Quote from: Cpt_Starfox on November 08, 2007, 10:59:42 PM
"A. How the GMs decided it should be done " - yes... I know that...
"B. more balanced" - nope...
A. if you know that, quit moaning. This is not some whim - it's a considered re-balancing of the system.
B. sorry, yes. End of thread.
I'm sorry but there are obviously two camps here - one camp is happy that we've reduced lag and tipped the scales back so that the challenge still is there but not in an overpowered way, the camp other is annoyed 'cos they rely on it and don't want to adjust to change. The majority seems to be in the former camp and this
discussion is not constructive...