Hiya, the FIRST thing I want to say is that this is not directed at ANYONE in particular. I have run across this several times at multiple vendors and just wanted to comment on it.
Ok....Ill just get to the point :)....alot of people are just too cheap. I have run across goods and services offered at almost no price whatso ever. Leather goods, good quality goods in all types of leather for 60ish gold a peice, repair deeds for 20g, and the list could go on....
GUys you are 1) undercutting the economy. I know I have talked to some people about this and part of the claim is that they wish to be nice to new players. I can understand that, I give away a set of troll leather to each new player I run across, BUT think about this. NO ONE, and I mean NO ONE starts poor on Sylvan Heart. Every Single Person starts with 20,000 gold to start, that is more then enough to equip a char with decent goods, even some enhanced drops or runic gear right off the bat. Then to top that off, gaining money here is easy, unless the player makes some mistakes right off the bat. That happens, I have helped some that have done that. but even so after a week or so they should be making money.
BY selling goods cheaper then you can even buy them off the shard merchants, you are giving people the impression that goods are cheap here, and that is not the truth, nor should it be the truth. In other conversations the avg fighter makes 30k or more up into the 100's of 1000's in one hour. The avg person has money to buy goods, at a decent price, but if they can buy cheap they will. That is just common sense, if you can get it cheap :) buy it. true there will always be some that patronize the more expensive for various reason ( friends, guildmate, status, RP, etc...) but they are exceptions not commons.
btw...before anyone says its just a price war, or im just jealous of them getting business...pfft....I dont care if they are cheaper....its that they are not even in the same ball park. I consider it rather insulting to me as a craftsmen. If I charge 1000g for an item and joe smchoe charges 900g he is trying to get buyers by under cutting me, and thats fine.....BUT if Joe is selling them at 10g then something is wrong.
2) it is undercutting the crafter and others.....this is as I just stated an insult to crafters who spend time to collect the resources, takes the time to work the skill up, and takes the time to create the object to have someone else say their goods are basicly worthless. ( and if they sell them for cheaper then you could to a vendor then they are worhtless) Now I REALLY DO NOT THINK THAT THIS IS INTENTIONAL. So PLease, please do not think that is what I am saying. I am simply saying that as a crafter I think that goods should cost more becuase they are worth more, and I think by virtually giving goods away that you are not respecting them, and this may become a common attitude. which would be poor for crafters as a whole.
3) Lessons in Economics.....it can only be assumed that one would place a vendor to make money. with that being the case, it might be that some people are bringing a OSI mentality to vendors. On OSI there are hundreds and hundreds of people playing at the same time and a vendor at the right location can make good money off cheap goods in the Wal-mart way...Volume. However, here we do not have people in those numbers here...or even close. so that means that one must adopt a differant business model, and that is one of quality. One must charge a decent price for decent goods, and make decent money on sales when they happen instead of a tiny bit ( or in some of the cases a loss since one can sell studded leather goods as an example to the vendor at 65, so a loss of 5 g on each item).
I could also offer this to those that want to help the new, or poor without setting the economy lower. Try actually talking to people and giving discounts for personal service. I know I charge 100g for a repair deed, but if someone asks and Im not busy I will generally do it for free ( or accept a tip, but not actually charge anything). The same goes for crafting something, if you catch me and I do it for you based upon a one on one conversation, I give cheaper prices.
Now, one person thought I was trying to fix prices, and that was wrong as well. I do not care what you charge, but when people go to almost the absolute bottom, it is discouraging to fellow crafters. I have also heard that they are just setting prices to see what they sell at....well then set them high :) and bring them down. You cannot do it the other way :) hehe
Anyway....once again, this was not directed at anyone in particular, rather a general rant :). It was also serious, but jovial, happyly said, not pissy or accusing. I know many times I am taken wrong, so I try at times like these to make sure that people understand my ranting attitude better :). SO if you ARE one of those who charges dirt cheap prices, and this is aimed at you, please beleive me that I am not aiming at you to create a problem, nor to insult. Rather I am ranting to hopefully create a dialog, and improve the situation for all :).
Have a good one.
I sell my repair deeds at 20 I think it is wayyyyyy out of porportion to sell them at 500-1000....... it only costs me like 10 or 12 for blank scrolls and uses none of the hammer or sewing kit........ and it only takes me like 30 seconds to make about 50 ........... so I am sorry I am keeping them there....and if the others are cheap on other things, they will be sold out all the time so others will have to go to other vendors........ Just my thoughts but the repair deeds stay at 20 on my vendors....... *hugs to you Dubhly*
Noticed you didn't say anything about those who have their prices extremely too high :) But thats way things go :)
I would agree that 500 or 1000 is too much, but I think they are too much in the same way that 20 is too little. btw it only cost 5 for a blank scroll :), although it takes more then 30 secs ;) to make 50. Also you have to think who you are selling to....what exactly does 20 g mean to them? what does even 100g mean to them,...or even 500g? thats one of the reasons we are seeing more and more ridiculous prices at the auctions. People have more money then they have things to do with it. Give them at least a touch to do with it :), let them pay a small pittance for a repair :) Make going to the crafter at least a small, tiny, tenie drain :) so they respect the crafter instead of the crafter being nothing but a occasional stop in the road.
The prices we charge show the respect we have for our own work, what I am asking is that you have more respect for your work. I suppose : ) i just have a funny way of looking at it perhaps, but thats me :).
and Hugs back Tawny *watches to make sure Stroem doesnt see me hugging his Wife :)*
There are other reasons why some people have prices way high, but I think the line above refering to respect of ones owns work is what I am really talking about, Gypsy. As I was typing I was thinking more on the subject, and I think thats what bugs me the most. I have a greater respect for my goods, and I suppose I think others should have more respect for their goods when they make them. Does that make any sense? :-\ Its not really about the money per se to me, as I said I give away armour all the time, armour that I sell on my vendor for something like 3k, and I do not make most my money from my vendors, but many differant ways, from hunting, T-maps, vendors, and im person selling, actually that probably makes up the bulk...actual consignements for people. Thats why I said its not about price fixing, or jealousy on the prices, its about careing about what we make and holding it up to what its value can be on this shard.
o well :) I ramble...as said not trying to target anyone :) and I hope it wasnt taken that way....just been wanting to vent on it :) without hopefulling irritating anyone to much. Have a good one....
Didn't upset :)
no you are not upsetting at all *smiles* but aye it does only take me around 30 seconds cause I macro it, I guess I don't charge as much because that is not what I am out to sell and make money on..... I do flowers.. *grins*
I agree totally. I think that a crafter should take pride in their work enough that they charge atleast a decent price for things. I have also seen prices like you are talking about Dubh and it does sadden me, but the main reason that i think people charge so little is that there isnt a generally accepted pricing guide for items here. And aye, it IS a good idea to look at other people's vendors and see what they are charging, but it dosent seem like many people are doing that heh.
Oh well, i agree that there is a problem, but i am not entirely sure how to fix it :(...
Jager
P.S. And if anyone ever thinks that i sell stuff too low i hope they would please send me a pm about it. I would be more than happy to consider a price change if it helps the economy in general.
Well Jager, i had tried to get the crafters to suggest a rough outline of prices for certain items, mostly crafted suits, ingots and the like, although some did say what they would charge others were not so helpful or were set against it as they saw it as price fixing. the topic was general prices under the this very section
Aye you did. And that is what i use for the most part for my pricing. I am glad you did that, but unfortunately not everyone uses that, so we need to come up with a way that will get ppl to accept guidelnes *heh*
Jager
It would be a good idea to set some guidelines, but who sets the guidelines? Crafters? or the people that wear and use the stuff that crafters make?
Insofar as I'm concerned, crafters should set the guidelines.
As has been mentioned by Cearbhalyn, crafters should take a pride in their works and come to an agreement over prices accordingly.
At the same time, also previously mentioned, consumers always look for the cheapest prices.
So, logically speaking, a buyer setting a price would want it lower, probably lower than it takes to create, thereby making the effort and expense of crafting somewhat pointless since the crafter sees neither return nor profit on their goods.
The problem with free servers is you have such a high percentage of crafter mules to players that there's no economy. I don't know if that's been said already because I've not actually read the post TBQH, but I know a high number of players here have a mule who can do nearly everything for them. So if a player can craft everything he needs, why bother going to another player to get other things expensively?
There are a lot of lazy people out there
*holds up hand in admittance*
For example, although I have a legendary miner, complete with +5 mining gloves, a huge bunch of prospectors tools, gargoyle pickaxes and a golem, I'd much rather buy my ore than actully go out mining it myself.
Mule chars do exist and almost everyone has one, true, but how many of those people can really be bothered to gather/craft all their own items when there are others around to do all the hard work for them?
You'll find that most crafters do not charge extortionate fees for their goods, and would not do so were there a general concensus on a round about price for any given creation.
Well, I for one craft all my own stuff usually, except for Eo's suit, which is troll, and Cooper can't do troll yet. But I hunt for the ore, I don't mine it... killing two birds with one stone more or less...
K I see suits and ingots on here but what about forges and avils? I asked Fae and went with what she sells hers for small 2k and large 3k and avil 1500 but what about troll leather and barbed no one has said what to charge, trying to stay in the guide lines but unless someone lets us know, as for the toko small rares went with what i had seen on some of the vendors, but some of them like 25k for a small basket that's to me to high, or maybe I'm just to cheap. like the toko lesser's have not seen any all the vendors have been to haven't seen any so if 15k is too high then say so, but will not sell a blessed darken sky for less than 50k with sockets in it. so i'm trying to stay in guild lines here so help me out here, give us some prices like for the bulltin boards 1000 to much what? butter churns to cheap at a 100. are we going to start selling sugar and coco and if so for how much? give us a price list something, I'm not here to get rich but don't want to make it to just make the vendor break even either. Talk to us old might one.....
Anything is worth the most that you can get from it ;)......Roman saying btw not me.
Arties used to have the value of 10k per lesser and 100k for the greater ones....so for instance your darkened sky ( I think thats a greater, isnt it) would be 100k, then if its fully socketed...whew thats a bundle there. just the val alone to socket something is 50k ish ( at 100 per val last time I checked was normal still), so in val alone 300k, then there is the socketing itself...at a bare minimum another 60k and what ever you paid to the person socketing ( which in some cases can be quite a bit) So a fully socketed greater tokono arty should be in the neighborhood of 460k.... a bit higher then the 50k you were refering to :).
As to the deco artifacts...those go from nothing to expensive, depending upon demand, and rarity. I would agree that a small basket priced at 25k is a bit much, but then again, is it rare? whats it like? without seeing it or knowing more about it, I cannot give anymore of an opinion on the price, but that there are several factors that MIGHT apply.
What you might do on crafted items is fix a price for yourself that you would charge for all the required resources, and then tack on some for your time and effort. I know I sell stone goods far higher then metal or leather becuase the stone is harder to come by. If you say set the price of normal ingots to 10 gold ( this encompassing your time and effort to gain and smelt the ore) and then decide to make a weapon that say takes 10 ingots...you got 100 gold into it so far, and then tack say 20 gold for skill and time....120g which is a more then fair price for a weapon.
Just dont forget that this is not a money poor shard, it is easy to make money here, it shouldnt be too hard to spend it ;).
I know an argument can be made for starting chars...but really when you start you get 20k just given to you, plus many people try to give new players some gear as well ( I know I try to give them a set or troll armour). If they want the good magical stuff :)... let them earn some gold. Same thing with the houseing items, like the forge you mentioned. 2k may seem alot, but when you consider how much money will be made using that forge or anvil its not much.
Anyway..fore I ramble too much.....:) Use your own judgement, and dont cheat yourself. If you spent the time making it, make sure that people pay you what the time and goods are worth. If something doesnt sell in a long time, or every one is selling it way cheaper? you might want to adjust your price. On the other side if people are selling itfor way higher and you are always out of stock...might consider raiseing the price too.
aarrgg....im rambling again :)...Ok ok :)