Deceit (Trammel)

[Rei]

I was reminded today I had been meaning to ask this for years.... Who's brilliant idea was it to put 6 ancient liches at the entrance to level 3?  Deceit is supposed to be a low level dungeon and that is a bit overkill. One or two I can understand but Rei can't even take 6 at once and he has high dex, evasion, and pretty good health (over 200).  Any chance of getting that changed so our newer players don't get massacred?

[Foray]

Many dungeons aren't meant to be "well I can kill clear level 1 therefore I must be able to clear all other floors", Despise is a newby dungeon but what is a at the bottom of that? Ettin Warlords, Dragons. What about Destard a mid tier dungeon, what is at the bottom of that? An Ancient Gem Dragon. Even the OSI original version of Covertous went from having pathetically weak enemies on floor one to having a tiny basement room with hard (for the time) mobs in it.

[Rei]

I'm not against there being a difficulty jump in the dungeons it's just you walk down and instantly 6 ancients on you all in one spot.  The ettin's are spaced so you can see them coming without a near insta kill and the gem dragon is set back a bit so you again have a warning of "Do I want to mess with that?".  Not saying it should be lowered but set them so they don't spawn right on ya and then camp your corpse requiring a distress call to get your things is all.

[Iris]

ill go look at the spawn Rei. i agree that we shouldnt have a hoard of strong monsters close to an entrance. maybe we can spread them out or at lease move them the bulk of them away from the entrance where you can enter and see whats in the area  before dieing

[Foray]

If you have enough time to decide whether you can kill the gem dragon then you've probably died already or know you can't just from seeing it's name (based on dieing to it in the past), As for the ettins you would be surprised that if you put something way harder than normal in a area filled with weak monsters some people who genuinely aren't aware of this, they will attack the hard monster using the notion of "Well it's in a place filled with weak enemies, it also must be fairly weak", the Drow queen in Montor is a good example of this lol.

The biggest issue with Deceit and some of the other sin dungeons is their usefulness, all in all places like Shame, Deceit, Covetous are completely inferior to places like Despise (gold, atones, special drops) and Beginners dungeon (leveling). More advanced sin dungeons are inferior to Destard and Ilshenar's Blood....etc.

Should be glad that 6 Ancient Liches are the only things at that spot, back before the champ spawns got turned off the whole floor would be filled with Rotting Corpses and Lich Lords.

[Lucian Darkfire]

While we are on the subject, level one of that doungeon was a huge disapointment, the level of the monsters were good, but there is like 10 maby 15 monsters on that whole floor, I think is some of the back rooms they should spawn a little... thicker would be a good word.

[Cypress]

Too thick... too thin... Well, some places are thick and mean and good more for warriors using WW and leech. Other places are not so much but instead are thin or more spread out giving more running room for training archers and mages. Most all dungeons (older OSI ones especially) in Trammel are easy to mid-level I'd say anyway. More so recently have we started trying to add in some really challenging places in Trammel rather than having them all in Fel. However, the older dungeons are still there for easy to mid-level players who've not yet gathered the courage to take on Fel (or the harder Tram/Ilsh dungeons we have now).

[Harthus]

Oh foray always taking the negative point of view. Anyhow its not the 3rd lvl Rei its the second level. Not even the end of the dungeon and they spawn 6 ancient liches right as you walk down

[Foray]

You say negative I say realistic. Those Ancient Liches have been at that entrance for almost half a decade at least and they are only now an issue? instead of the actual issue being that the Liches haven't been an issue because it's a once in a blue-moon event that anyone actually goes to Deceit to begin with? if anything removing those liches will make it less desirable for anyone to go there it's like removing the blood elementals from that small room in Ankh.

Covetous, Deceit and Shame really need revamping to make them more adequate as right now you only need to be able to summon a Blade Spirit consistently to be able to farm Despise and earn more in a few hours there than you'd get in days of farming Covetous, Deceit and Shame. As for leveling, Between Despise, town/ house and Beginners dungeon there is no reason to go elsewhere, combat skills raise very fast in Beginners dungeon and other skills are more practical to raise in town (so you have a supply of resources, like for crafting skills) and for those adament on leveling via adventure/ combat then we go back to Despise good arty drops, good gold, good atones, large amounts of leather and treasure chests and a good mix of mobs.

[Harthus]

Last time I was in deceit now this server could be different. There was not a spawn of 6 ancient liches at the entrance to lvl 2. Let my clarify I AM NOT REFERRING TO THE teleport TO LVL 3. See map. I can understand closer to the end of lvl 2 or even maybe one or two spawned throughout the dungeon. The issue isnt that ancient liches spawn in the second level. its that they spawn so many at a entry point and tend to kill weaker players before they fully transition. I understand people go to these dungeon expecting certain types of monsters.  Destard has the dragons, Shame has elementals, orc cave has orcs. Putting such "endgame" creatures at the entrance to lvl 2 is like putting a ancient wyrm on the first level of the beginner dungeon.

[Foray]

This shard is different though, I never claimed that the Ancient Liches are placed there default by OSI or whatever, I stated they have been intentionally there for 5 or more years on this shard (Placed by a past developer, probably Oak) so why is it all of a sudden such a travesty that they are there?

If you think that Ancient Liches and Ancient Wyrms are "end game" on here your in for a rude awakening down the line. Who cares if new or fragile players get killed by the Ancient Liches why do you assume that on this shard those players are meant to be there (using "Oh but on OSI this" or "On my last shard that" is not a legit argument as we have content changes in many areas and mobs that would laugh as they ripped apart OSI's Crimson Dragons).

[Cypress]

Alrighty heh, it is true that this place is far from OSI and probably vastly different from many other shards. There are some similarities but still many differences.

'Round these parts ancient liches is easy stuff. *makes a show of waving off the mention of them* More trouble cleanin' me sword after killin' em than actually killin' em.  *chuckles*

I'd say those liches have indeed claimed that little portion of the dungeon as a sorta surprise attack I guess for many years before I ever came to be admin even probably. However, we have talked about looking into this particular spawn.

[Harthus]

Alright cypress you did say that. I guess this thread has taken a different direction so i wont comment further.

[Cypress]

Well, there is one liche who's still around and still bad news in a serious way (you just can't seem to permanently re-kill the undead I guess lol). His name is Abraxius. If you see him, run the other way... and fast.

[Tal Lothian]

Hey now those 6 ALs are great popcorn munching entertainment. I am close personal friends with two of them. They just want a chance to live, err relive...unrelive? Well whatever it would be; they just want a chance to do what comes natural. Help unsuspecting dungeon crawlers build character (read die) that's all.


This message brought to you by the Advocacy for Suprise Lich Pownage.  Support ASLP send fresh meat to Deceit.


I'm Fig and I approve this message.