The tank

[Jharnul]

I love playing warriors in UO, and tanks in most games. But the tank in Sylvan has 2 problems: in Trammel, he's nigh invincible, while in Felucca, he's not too good at his job. (I use "he" because my character is a male).

The source of the problem is, of course, Evasion, from Bushido, and the high dexterity you get from augments.

I would like to enjoy hunting without being invincible, or hunt in Fel with all my abilities available.

Would it be possible to either hard cap the bonus to evasion gained from high dex, or lower that bonus, so that augmenting dex still benefits a tank?

I don't know how hard it is to do, but that is something I think would make hunting more fun, both in groups and solo.

[Iris]

I know a lot of players here have become what I call dexers and while dex is important, you can reach your max healing speed with about 180 dex. Having higher dex can still help in various ways, but it can also leave you weak to a lot of hard hitting monsters like what you might find in Fel and various places on other maps. In my opinion a good tank needs lots of hit points. It doesn't matter how much dex you have if your hps are not enough to take the pounding that some monsters dish out. A good tank needs a good amount of dex and enough hps to handle the hard hitting monsters. If your not doing as well with the high dex maybe make some changes with your augments and go more with hit points and hit chance increase and defend chance increase instead of relying so much on dex and evasion. I've seen lots of great tanks that can solo a huge part of Fel with only 180 dex. There's lots of different builds to make a great tank, so experiment with some of the other ways and see if you might like them better.

[Cypress]

If you're looking for danger in Trammel, try the Painted caves, pirate ship, or Vennominaga dungeon if you dare. Trammel in general is meant to be easy to medium level though, so there's not a lot that's really hard in Trammel, but there may more to come. There are still places in Ilsh, Malas, and Tokuno where you might find danger as well. As to what dangers are in Felucca, it's unlikely that evasion will be changed or allowed for Felucca, but it isn't really needed. With skill and practice, players have been soloing Fel for years using various builds including tanks of course I'm not saying it's easy to do, but it can be done which shows that evasion isn't really needed to do what ya gotta do so to speak heh. Think of it maybe as taking off the training wheels and learning to master the use of your other skills hehe. There are still even other places where the use of skills and spells is further restricted rather than just evasion and druid clone (which I believe druid clone is also restricted in Fel)! So then, you go from no training wheels to riding with no hands hehe. Just gotta see how good you can get in all sorts of situations.

[Jharnul]

Thanks to the both of you.

One of my biggest weakness is the inability to explain myself correctly in a few words. English not being my language, I need a lot more to be more clear.

I'm really not asking to put back evasion in Fel so I can solo everything, quite the contrary. I'm saying evasion is making things too easy in Tram. I haven't tried all the dungeons you mentioned, Cypress, but one really needs to dig to encounter something challenging even for solo when one is a tank.

Evasion is a really fun skill. It's the thing that made me like warriors in the first place. It allows for a chance to block any kind of attack source. What is fun about it is that an unsocketed character can defend with more efficiency against big baddies with firebreathes or big spellcasting abilities.
It becomes problematic with a bit more dex because at one point (I don't have the math) the chance to block becomes infinitely close to 100%, if not 100%
That is probably the reason why it is blocked in Felucca.

What I'm suggesting is that if the chance to block was much lower than 100%, like, say, 75 including all parry bonuses, DCI, and the highest dex possible, it would make the skill still very useful, but not completely ridiculous. A nerfed invasion would be an acceptable skill to be used in Fel, and make Trammel overall more challenging in the process, without forcing evasion tanks (and only them) to completely change their fight style from facet to facet.

I hope I don't make people feel like I'm some kind of whiny kid who wants his candy, because I'm really not complaining about anything. I just liked fighting with evasion on OSI, and would like for it to be usable when I play the role of the tank.

Hopefully that clarifies some points.

[Rei]

As a character who qualifies as a tank, if not an odd one at that, I know that with high dex, maxed out DCI (55 or 45% whichever it is) and 120 Bushido there is still a lot that can hit me in Tram.  Being a Dex monkey makes pure physical attacks all but impossible on me, but cast a spell or hit me with cold damage and I get hurt.  Dragons can kill me if I'm not careful (and that's with using evasion, which only really works for a few seconds anyway before having to re cast) and the top tier tram mobs can definitely kill me (Dr. Deth anybody?).

So what it comes down to is, what are you fighting?  There are plenty of monsters on the normal maps (Tram, Ilsh, tokuno, Malas) that can kill a dex monkey.  Just for the record I have 299 Dex but have also jumped my HP to 247-ish (bad memory right now and can't remember my HP number).  So even when things pound on me and hit me with magic I can compensate and stay alive hopefully long enough to heal.  And when all else fails..... RUN!

[Jharnul]

I am fighting what I encounter on my way. I search for interesting monster and engage combat. But most monsters in Trammel (including dragons, any type) can barely scratch me when evasion is up, I don't even have to heal or anything. The little damage I get from spells I regenerate.

It's not this way with all mobs, but the fact that it happens more often than not shows that evasion is flawed to some level.
I have a bit above 200 dex, because I like to have high stam, but I remember being at 180 and evasion was working the same. I know that at 150 it wasn't like this, but I'm no sure of the threshold.

I know I'll still be able to find challenge in the game, I just saw fixing evasion as a way to even out the level of challenge throughout all facets.

[Iris]

I understand what your saying and evasion is a really powerful Spell. over powering in some ways, But its been this way for years and its just not likely to change. anytime soon. most players like the evasion and even depend on it, i just wanted to give you some other options on making your char more fun for you. when i take my tank warrior out i dont even bother to use evasion for the same reason your talking about, except for a few horrible monsters like the paragon mutant Squirrel. id  rather use confidence. when im fighting. and use evasion only when i really need it.

[Jharnul]

I get your point, Iris. I'm already in process of making myself another toon for hunting, and I feel he'll be loads of fun.

Still, one can wish on the wish list .

Thanks for taking the time to respond to my (kinda) rant

[Festus]

Without a doubt the best overall discussion I have read in a forum in years. Your all very wise and I hope to some day be able to figure out how to build a good tank also.  Then of course comes how to hunt with her/him.

[Lucian Darkfire]

I know this convo is pretty well over, by here is my two cents. I am a pretty good tank, around 300HP, 230 DEX, 120 in both Bushido and parry. In trammel there is not much that can kill me, but that is also because it is trammel. Which in my opinion for MOST places in tram is the easiest facet. But even as strong as i am when i go to fel i still take a pounding, so there are going to be harder spots in a game than others. The last shard i was on it was IMPOSSIBLE to be a tank simply for the fact that everything was so strong that no one could take a direct hit from anything, which is one of the main reasons i left. I understand you want a challenge, but to make the entire world harder for tanks in my opinion is a bad idea in my opinion. I am a fan of every once and a while going out and hunting weaker monsters just for the fact that i really don't have to worry about dieing. If i only have 30 mins to play, if i die in that time frame im in a lot of trouble. But as far as thing being to hard for evasion tanks in fel, i have deff seen alot of people take alot of parts of fel with little problems without evade.

[metalwrath]

To the person who started this thread.
If you feel that tank build is boring and too easy then i suggest trying to make a challenging build.
Here's an example.

Instead of using the usual 2 hand axe that everyone on the server uses to tank use a one hand weapon like kryss and become a poison mage tank.Don't use bushido and also invest in magery and evaluate int and make a weapon  that has 2 strong hit magic effects.
You won't have godly evasion but you'll do a tonne of damage at once.Not only that but because the weapon you are useing has a higher swing speed you can invest more stats into str over dex.Also have the weapon and shield spell chaneling so if you get in a tough spot with many monsters you can use aoe magic.