The Vendor Changes - Week One

[Cpt_Starfox]

My main concern was with cloth and bandages... and my WWWIII stock pile has not yet run out... so I'm not sure yet LOL - but since bandages are suppose to be left anyways... I'm not seeing a problem other than the books and the buyall guy stuff which yall are already working on 

[Aesa]

Okay, I might be ruffling a few feathers here but I think if someone wants to undercut another vendor then that's their choice.  Most of the items made that are in demand like cloth, bandages and arrows cost nothing to make, only time.  The only thing I was concerned about was price gouging which I'm not seeing anyone overprice for items no longer available for sale on NPCs.  I also do not wish to see a "price list" that all the vendors abide by.  Let each one set their prices.  If they are 100 gold more than the next guy then they will probably not sell out until the cheaper ones do.  If they are 100 gold less than everyone else then they will probably sell out quickly and people will move on to the next guy.  etc....

And I've seen many vendors well stocked with those items above and for prices that the NPCs had or even a cheaper.

[Queen Karina]

Right on  Aesa   

[Skynar]

exactly same or cheaper .  So my point then is  whats the point?  Why even bother having a vendor if ya cant at least enough to cover your costs and a small amount for your labor. Might as well set everyone to have a crafter slot with 120 preset everything and not have vendors at all.

and NO im not yelling im not freaking out  im not arguing. However I am making a very Valid point

[Caelan]

Ummmm....huh?

I don't see a valid point here myself.

I think most of the time, before the changes were made, people purchased goods from player vendors when those items were out of stock on the NPC vendors or because they could buy in bulk at a reasonable price.

The bulk stone (or as I liked to refer to it the "gold sink stone") had 1000 of whatever item for 10k. If a player vendor has the same 1000 of that item for 2k, 5k, or 7k...what do you think players are gonna buy? Why pay 10k for 1000 boards when you can go to a player vendor and get those same boards for a fraction of the price?

If people feel they are getting a good deal buying from vendor "A", and they charge less then vendor "B", chances are they are gonna buy from vendor "A". No one is regulating what people are charging, to my knowledge, and I see no reason for anything like that to be done. If your sales are not what you think they should be, maybe try some marketing techniques to increase your sales. Buy one get one free...buy this and we'll include a free cookie with each purchase...tell a friend and get a discount. The possibilities are endless.

Use your imagination! Be enterprising! You know you want to!

[Queen Karina]

I like cookies

[Caelan]

COOKIES RULE!

*tosses pumpkins & pies at everyone*

[Skynar]

The point is. if i am losing money to make things  why make and sell them. if i am spending hours making arrows. (gathering killing lumberjackings etc) and am forced to sell them cheaper then then the  Npc vendor did of at same price then im not getting paid for my time.


Would you go to work everyday for no paycheck?  I think not.  Tho whole idea of a merchant in any game/rl   is to MAKE money  not lose it.  if ya lose it or you work for free you cant feed yourself or your family. So you dont.

Its pretty simple economics here.   Lets apply a real life situation  to make my point

The Student loan industry  was <> close to NOT providing ANY student loans to ANYONE this fall because  of a certain new york politician and a certain Kennedy.    There would have been NO way  any student loan could have been created without it immediatly being at a loss to the company.  There is no way those companies could have stayed in business(a bunch didnt) and been able to provide loans to college students. THIS CLOSE<>  now  what kind of damage do you think that would have done to not only this countrys future in the long run but immediatly to the economy before all of this garbage happened.   Without all of the Loan companies  coming together and going to DC to state the problems  it would have happened.  Thankfully The government rushed a bill thru congress to provide assistance.


But The point is  You can NOT operate a merchant or a company  with everything being at a loss.  Same rules apply when it comes to game merchants.  Why would anyone spend all this time in game to sit there and have to farm/lj gather  etc for nothing in return but less GP then they had before.

Before IT was only specialty stuff that NPCS didnt sell or Bulk amounts that you could sell at a small profit.  Now that profit could be going buhbye  if it becomes a whos cheapest and can afford to just give away gold. .


   

[Aesa]

The following comment is not said with an attitude:

What you get for your time is fun.  You either enjoy crafting or you don't. 

[Caelan]

Still looking for a valid point and sees none...

Economics: The study of how the forces of supply and demand allocate scarce resources.

If you are not willing to sell items at a price people think is fair, they won't buy them.

Players that currently have crafter vendors are making money. They may not be be making a fortune, but I doubt they are losing money if they are selling items at a fair price that other players are willing to pay.

That is economics!

Greed: An excessive desire to acquire or possess more than what one needs or deserves, especially with respect to material wealth.

If you are charging prices for items that players feel are too high, chances are they are not gonna buy those items unless they have no other option. They will seek out vendors to compare prices and purchase what they feel is fair. If they feel you are trying to get rich off of them, they probably won't bother buying from you at all, I know I wouldn't. Wanting a small fortune for basic goods and/or services is not good for the economy.

That is greed!

Greed is what got the global economy in the state it is in and that is why businesses went belly up and governments had to step in to offer financial stimulus incentives to get the economy moving again. It didn't happen overnight, it was something that was known about for years, and it was not the result of any one person. But I digress...

My point is, if you cannot sell goods for the price you want and make a profit, prehaps having a crafting vendor is not for you. There are certainly other ways of acquiring gold out there that are far less time consuming and more financially rewarding if making money is your soul motivation.

Believe it or not, there are some players that enjoy making items and are not mainly motivated by what they can earn off of a crafter vendor. To them it is fun and enhances their gameplay. For those players, the changes that have been made seem to be greatly appreciated.

However, you cannot please everyone, but pleasing a majority is better then pleasing no one at all.

[Teclis]

I need to speak up real quick as a crafter here (Durin) I have worked hard to be able to provide the goods I do. Not only that, but my resources I had have been reduced making me work even harder. That being said I set my prices at what I feel my time and effort are worth. If I see someone who is throwing items out there way too cheap, I will likely buy those, mark them up and resell them on my vendor. Stores in reality do this all the time, JC Penny's doesn't manufacture levi's jeans and they certainly don't pay $60 a pair for them. If I have an item that everyone else is selling for less, I have to drop my prices or stop carrying the item. Point is, eventually the market will stabilize, and goods have gotten cheaper. I like it.

[Zug]

First off, I have been on the Sylvan shard for years, but took a hiatus for a while (Okay an extended while) and am just now returning.  To make a very long story very short, the primary reason I am returning (and finding myself being completely addicted to Sylvan again) is because what I love about UO or just about any MMORPG is crafting and RP.  I enjoy a good hunt now and then, but my passion is crafting and RP.  Now I believe Sylvan is truly a perfect place to not only do both of those, but in fact to be able to happily marry the two together and have a blast doing it.  That brings me to my main reason for this post.

I must say I mean no offense to anyone by this post, as this is purely my view of it, but I think it is a valid one that bears hearing.  I have a crafter on Sylvan.  I make arrows of all kinds, metal goods, food stuffs, and lots of other neat things that we are fortunate enough to be be able to craft on Sylvan.  The vast majority of items cost me absolutely nothing to make.  I use a use or a few uses of my tool, which after buying one tinker kit to make more tools costs nothing.  I use up some basic resources, which in almost every case I go out and gather in bulk at no cost but my labor.  And I mix it all together and wallah!  A fine product worthy of selling to my friends in Sylvan for a reasonable price.  Ah!   But there's the rub!  What is reasonable?  

To me, without adding to the already plentiful postings on basic economics, a reasonable price is enough to cover my expenses, which as already mentioned are nearly zero for the vast majority of items, and enough to make a little something for myself to spend.  I have no ambitions of being the next Sam Walton or Bill Gates on UO.  I can make plenty just going out and hunting big critters with my big nasty 'tank.'  If money is all you care about, then trust me, that is the easier route.  I can make millions that way, and at least as easily as even the most successful and greedy crafter can.  But in fact, I don't do that.  My tank is mostly used to help others out when they wander into the wrong critter.  But I do love crafting.  That's why I craft.  It's fun.  I think that is why the majority of people craft.  I get a sense of satisfaction out of making all these neat items for my friends and fellow Sylanites (Sylvanians? Sylvans???) and playing the merchant who is out to win over their business and their loyalty.... as an orc no less.  And even us orcs know how much the humies love dealing with orcs!  But that's the fun of it, and that is the reward of it.  Haggling, competing for business with fellow crafters, coming up with clever RP marketing schemes, making shopping a fun and interesting experience instead of a mundane trip to the local replicator..err NPC vendor.  I guess it is all in your attitude.  And yes, I realize most of you have never met Zug, but give him time... he'll come after your business soon enough.  

I honestly don't charge much.  Perhaps I charge less than an NPC vendor might for certain things, and yet I can still make a healthy profit doing so.  Arrows, you say?  I pay absolutely nothing to make them.  I chop down some trees with me big choppa and I gots boards.  Boards make me lots of shafts.  I can go punch a chicken with me bare fists and got some feathers if I want, but harpies are more fun.  A couple bits of iron from da pickaxe gets me a fletching kit wif a flick of da tinker kit.  Put 'em all together and I gots arrows for nothin'?  So, I take some time gathering the stuff for them... and I had a heck of a good time doing it, whistling an orcy tune the whole time.  That's my big pay off.  I had an orcy good time and I get some stuff I can sell out of it for some shinies as a bonus.  *Pardon the orciness slipping in, but just talking about it gets me all orcy inside!*  In the end, I can say the same for most of what I make.  I'm doing it to have fun.  That's what it's all about.  That's why we're all here, I hope.  Sure I don't wanna lose money any more than anyone else.  And I don't.  I gotta spend money to lose money, right?  What do crafters get for their time?  A lot of fun killin' plants, making sheeps bald, an' muggin' critters for their hide an' loot, if ye asks me!... Oh, yeah, and stuff you can sell for money, too.    Even when I have to spend money, I don't have to spend much.  Blank scrolls are cheap, runes are cheap, regs are cheap... but a rune book sells for HOW much?

As far as people buying my goods and re-selling them, I am all for it.  Enjoy!  If people want to pay more for the stuff than they have to for whatever reason, that's cool by me.  I still made a little profit, had fun along the way, and feel good about my pricing.  If I keep my vendor stocked and you are selling my stuff for more, and people buy from you instead of me, you must be doing something right!  Congrats!  We both win!  But that won't stop me from trying to win those customers back. 

If you ask me, fixing minimum prices ruins half the fun of being a crafter.  If you want people to buy your stuff, I have a whole bunch of ideas for you.  You can try to make better stuff than anyone else and keep selling for more.  You can realize that your time is not as valuable as you think it is in game and lower your prices to what customers are willing to pay.  You can come up with clever marketing schemes, like half price Tuesday, Free Frog Fridays, or Call your self Crazy Edward and start slashing prices or slashing bolts of cloth.. your choice.  There are limitless ideas out there if you let loose and have fun with it.  You can actually get out there and RP our sales and marketing (with willing players of course) to try to draw in RP'ers who want more out of their shopping experience.  You can deco your shop so it is fun to shop there instead of the usual stark walls and a spot by the wall.  You can really have fun with it.  Perhaps you work a deal with a neighboring vendor to stage a price war to the benefit of both your shops!  The ideas go on and on, and in lots of other directions.  I plan on using most of the above and a lot more.  All I can say is, "Come on people!  This stuff is great!  Have fun with it and you might even like it!"

Oh, and to Acacia and any other staff or players or Council Members that contributed to this great step in Sylvan's evolution - A sincere "Thank you."  You've added a whole new dimension of fun to the shard.

Again, all of the above is meant in the spirit of fun and deepest respect for everyone else out there with an opinion.  I just think people sometimes miss out on a lot of enjoyment by focusing on the little gripes instead of looking for the great things that are right in front of them.

[Mina]

    *applauds*  yay ,  so well said for an orc,