PVP and looting

[KukoShaku]

Hiya, it's me again with a question this time    I have searched for about an hour now about PVP and looting. I have checked the Shard Basics and all i found was what i already knew... pvp is OK as long as it's in character. Which is fine with me, because every character i have made, i have given them a personality.  The problem is... once you do make the kill and the victim's body is at your feet... What exactly are you allowed to loot off the corpse? I take it money is a given, but what about regs/nice gems or an item? is there a guide line that i missed somewhere? or maybe a rule of thumb to follow?
thanks 

[Cearbhalyn]

the only time I think it has really been discussed it when its in relation to an event or a guild war. Honestly there is no real PvP here. In relation to the above to topics... it varies. As for events...just things that are easily replaceable like bandages, regs, gold. As to the Guild wars...well there was really only one big one and that was close to a year ago. There were rules set and agreed to by both guilds pretty much. There was some discussion, but the end result was up to them.

So not much help Im afraid... you will have to go on your own I guess. Personally If you are going to PvP I would say prepare to pay the piper. Make sure your gear is insured and anything you want to keep is also, and have that pesky auto insure on...

[Thane ir'Wyndan]

My PERSONAL take on PvP is this:  since anyone participating in it does so willingly on Sylvan AND any item can be insured, then anything left on the body is fair game to be looted.  Now what I have taken when I PvPed was gold, regs, bandages, gems, food.  All things easily replacable and NO one is going to have their game ruined because they gotta make a pit stop for basic resupply.

[KukoShaku]

ah that's fair enough, so more or less as i thought... the easily replacable things. Well and shoudl i come across anything that wasn't insured... i suppose I'll take it... but maybe sell it back to the owner later on     hehehehe  so that way kinda everybody wins.

I was just thinking about the whole PVP thing... wanted to make things a little fun. You know play a role of a bandit or a marauder... keep people on their toes, sorta speak. I'm not planning this any time soon though... so everyone can rest easy. Though i do have a mercenary who may be paid to assassinate someone     hehehehe  So you never know
So yeah, cheers for the heads up on the looting   

[Admin Acacia]

I know when we had an active Orc band here, they would only loot gold, maybe food and bandies. They didn't take anything else.

Some of this is sort of up to the person, some kind of like a code of honor, if you can have such a thing in PvP.    We have stated that it must be role played, we have never gotten into the looting aspects of the matter.   Is that something we need to lay down, or allow it to be individual?   Interesting thought.

[KukoShaku]

Yeah, i know... which is why i asked before i made my marauder  hehehehe i don't wish to anger the gods (esp. Thane, for obvious reasons) as well as the victims. When they have stuff taken from them i don't particularly wish to hear a whole lot of whining and then getting the admins involved to sort the mess out. You guys are doing an awesome job and you already have your hands full as it is with out this matter. So I think there should be some guidelines for what can be taken and/or how it may be recoverd if taken. for example if i make a kill, and i find an item on a corpse i'd take it. then after bringing the ghost back to life i'd offer the victim to buy that item or items back for a small fee (maybe 5k gold per item or so) then the choice would be up to the victim if he/she wants the item back. So having that kind of system should work fine, because you know anything can happen... get a new item and forget to insure it... die at the hands of someone who was after you and you have no chance to getting it back (unless of course the pker happened to be nice...).
But it doesn't matter to me if such guidelines get put into place... should i kill someone (and i do look forward to it *grins*), i will do as i said above. You will be able to buy the item back 

So i guess this is like a little warning    hehehehe  you now know who and more or less where... the only thing is when 

Cheers for all the feedback on the issue, it cleared up a grey issue for me 

[Aderyn]

Seems to me looting rules shouldn't really be necessary. Really, it's made clear in the rules what areas are PvP areas and no one should be in those areas if they aren't willing to risk losing any uninsured items they're carrying. Besides, I kind of like the above idea where if you have something looted and really want it back, the person who looted you might have to pay a ransom to get it back, or perhaps fulfill some task (bring me x amount of hard-to-acquire resource), or perhaps train up and challenge that person to another duel to get your beloved family heirloom back.

[Kydaer Shol]

I like that idea as well *giggles*

[TTG]

I have a pk in the works (already starting to kill stuff), role play style, with very very minimal looting.  I do like loot, so if they just picked up something nice, I might snag it, but as for all that other stuff, nahhhhh.  Point is follow my role play

just a fyi to the mastas

[Cearbhalyn]

Pk's are griefers in my mind, since they serve only to cause grief to other people. That is not allowed here!
Bandits, marauders, thieves, and various other Role Players are allowed. You Must RP the encounter that means on the whole no just walking up and trashing people, no sneak attacks without planning ( yes there are ways to RP it out, but you have to put some effort into it), no just killing without interaction before hand.
I know I have argued with someone over this word before, but I stand by my definition. A PK is nothing more then a griefer, they kill people just for the fun of it, or they are lazy. Fine on another server, but here we need to RP the PvP that means...you want to kill people for fun? call yourself a murderer! want to steal all the time, your a thief! want to rampage the countryside... your a bandit! there are plenty of ways to role play it out, and to enjoy the privilege (note...not right) of being able to fight your fellow player ( note also that pvp does not have to end with death either). You must though use role playing to gain that privilege! a pk is NOT a rp title!

You might assume from my use of exclamation marks I am touchy on this subject, and I am. I detest pks, with two or three passions. They ruin the game, with no shadow of a doubt. They do not serve any purpose other then griefing people! They are why we left OSI years ago the first time. BTW I am not alone in feeling this way, I have talked to lots of other players in game who feel the same way about pks.
Now do not get me wrong, I think RPing pvp isn't not as bad, and I can understand it. I do not tend to go into fel places because I don't wish to come into those possible conflicts, but I can completely understand that some do enjoy the RP aspect of it. However, I am always on guard against pk's, not rpers. That's why I restate the rules that you must use RP to do the PvP, because that's the only thing that lays between a Rper and a PK...the Rper is doing it for story..the pk for grief.

Anyway....I could go on....but Ill desist
Have a good one

and ttg, it wasn't aimed at you, you just set off my rant with that term (pk), because it means so much to me in a very very negative way. SO accept my apologies if you think it is, its not...its a generally pk rant.

[TTG]

Hello,

I've played multiple online games, (Ultima Online, Asheroncs  Call, dark ages of camelot, everquest and final fantasy IX online). 

I know this is satisfying to you, but pks are not just griefers.  Have you ever gotten an adrenaline rush from attacking another player or another player attacking you?  That causes interest.  I will be out there, I will be role playing, and I will be making sure despite the death, the players end up being atleast 51% happy compared to mad/angry/sad.  The only reason the Ultima online even blew up with as much population as it has over the years is (1, it's awesome gameplay, along with how new it was when it came out compared to the substitutes) and (2. MONSTERS, LOOT AND KILLING OTHER PLAYERS)  Guild wars, faction wars, ... are these just here to please the PVM's?  Nope, you can only get so much out of killing monsters and loot. 

Back in the day, I used to put down heavy containers of 400 stones, hoping someone came to pick it up, so I could kill them.  I got better, would fight 3v1's.. 5v1's and even guild vs 1.  I did it so i could pick up their regeant pouch, and hopefully not be overweright to kill more or get out.  At that time, all the money I had was uselss, it was all about going out to the spawn sites and killing monsters hoping for items.  so maybe you lost one katana of force .. oh no.  With this game, it's all about putting that thought in others head that it's not completely safe. 

I know where you're coming from.  My mom plays this game (Wintermoon), and the first thing she said is "show me where to go where pk's are so I don't go there, unless you're with me."  I explained it all to here.  So now that we have a pk spot, I'm not just going to I KILLED YOU MUHAHAHHAHA..

my point is, it is all about maturity as well as not taking advantage of the power.  I can't tell you if I will loot at all, or what will happen.  I do know my fighting tactics, and my character profile as well as certain conversations I hope to simulate as I hang around.  My character is extremely PVM gimped, not to overpower the PVP aspect, but to ensure, I don't play the heck out of the character.  Really, just during events or big functions in FEL, do I plan to sign on and just sorta keep everyone on their toes and hopefully bring excitement when they kill me.   Honestly I think every character should have 1 character in a guild that is in war with another one.  Just to get all that out.. Oh cool I just got a 12 socket super duper toy.. wonder how much damage I do on a lich.......  ehhhhh I wonder how much I do against another player.  riiiight?  It's all about bragging rights while holding down your ego.

Regardless, the more negative tone you bring about this discussion, the harsher it all is going to be.  I'll even welcome everyone that really hates PVP that much, to private message me and I'll write your nicks down on a paper, and pass you up.  I don't care, I just like to have fun, and make sure whatever I do, doesn't conflict with the happiness and well being of others.

bye

Ironhand/ xxxxxxxx not telling u pks name ;)but i'm sure u will all guess if you do a little investigation when seeing ironhand log in and out and seeing whos on or what not

one last note, fighting the anti/pk wars .. running in buccs.. controlling deciet.. some of the greatest times and the WHOLE  reason I came back to Ultima online.  I then picked this shard, because I was hoping to phase out of it because my want for loot is so great.  The customizations this server has is really good.. like some love with the fletching and stuff but... who's to complain?  I'm having fun. I didn't know I had to explain my whole intentions to put the other people at ease.

-Tivo The Good of Baja  (TTG)  (also pacific)

[todd0168]

I wasn't going to say anything here but I feel I must make a distinction that I think is going unnoticed.  I think the main difference of opinion here is in terminology.  I would agree with Dubh that "PKs" are griefers.  But, not everyone who likes PvP is necessarily a "PK".  "PKs" are Player Killers, their whole thing is to go around killing other players, period.  But, like Dubh said, brigand, bandits, thieves, etc. are not, in my opinion, "PKs", they are RP PVPers.  From what I have seen Kuko say, he is very much a PVPer, not so much a blatant "PK".  I would have to also agree with Dubh, that I very much do not like "PKs".  RPd PVP might not be so bad, but I doubt I will ever stick around to test that.  I have never been very good at PvP, and don't intend to start trying now.

As long as it's RPd Kuko, I think you are just fine in whatever you do along those lines.  Just make sure that you RP it and I can't see any reason why anyone would have to complain about it.

[Alaric McCree]

Let's not argue somantics. Before anyone gets upset or worse, we all know the basic rule of thumb here. Any player to player interaction that includes any kind of fighting, stealing, or anything else that may be considered to go "against one of the said players by the other player" HAS to be ROLE PLAYED out. Period.

Stick to that and everything will be fine. I have seen and been on both sides of the coin here. This rule is here for a reason.

Personally, I look forward to seeing what new interesting rp situations will arise once there is a known threat lurking around. I  know of a few solid rpers who will be waying the value of making that run to some special place knowing their may be a bandit lurking around as well.

Stay safe, if you can, and above all...

HAVE FUN!!!!

[TTG]

Hello,

My bad Faethora,  I missed your last line about your post being a random rant on a semi-random word in a specific post.

In all honesty, if this helps patch things up...................

above all things in life, I hate whiners... I do fight to not ask for help, or advice.  But I figure, I like to help, have no problem helping, and as long as we are all mature, what's it matter if we all have smiles?

Whether I am a hyprocrite or not... just anyone whining about anything, or even !% whining, just kills me.  I work in real life and deal with people who don't like to work etc, then to come on my game and see people whining or (yes on the otherside of it, people using bugs to get ahead) do bother me.  I've just dealt with so many people through all the games I've played and since for some reason, God has blessed me with Legendary hand-eye coordination, I've always been in the mix, holding down a war on just a few set of shoulders.  Always coming out on top

P.S. I was banned from UO back in the day for racism language during a server war, even though it was ok for the people of that racist to use remarks against me... sorta set up, but being most hated through words and game play.... gotta watch my back.  It's 6 years later, and I am now 26 years old.. i've learned a lot, and although I try to cut corners, I in no means want to ruin others in any unreasonable manner.

TTG, Ironhand

[Cearbhalyn]

I think you mean me TTG not Fae.... he merely agreed with me. I also fully agree with his comments. I have known RPers who wanted pvp to do more RP, however, most pvpers are griefers, and so when someone calls themselves a PK..they are calling themselves a Griefer. If they are rpers, they dont do it....

No, I dont get a rush, just pissed off when someone comes and attacks me for no reason other then to see me dead. Thats one of the reasons i dont do Fel.